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Episode 245: Kenny Barnwell On Maintaining Healthy Relationships When Working Away From Home

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Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green

  
Andy Leviss: Hey y'all, welcome to another episode of Signal the Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss, flying solo today. Sean is dealing with a last minute emergency, but sends his best and he'll be back here next time! Meanwhile, I guess you're stuck with me! Womp wommmmmp. 

I'm really excited about this week's episode, because if you listened to episode 242 a few weeks ago with Mark Russie, we started that episode with a new Q&A segment we're trying out, and had a couple of our friends on to give some advice on Cole O'Malley's question about maintaining a healthy long distance relationship while touring.

One of the answers came from past guest Kenny Barnwell, and Kenny made the mistake of saying the one thing you should never, ever say to a podcast host, "Man, this question could be a whole dang episode on it's own, you know?" 

Me being at least every once in a while a smart podcast host, I called his bluff, and so I'm super excited to welcome back to the show the one, the only, Kenny Barnwell! Thanks for joining us again, Kenny!

Kenny Barnwell: Man, I am so dang excited to talk about this topic, man. It's such an important one, uh, because there's a lot of us on the road that have partners or spouses at home. So, thanks for having me back on, dude.  
Andy Leviss: Totally. I'm glad to do it. And you, you just came back off the road, right?  
Kenny Barnwell: Yep, yep. We, uh, officially just did the Houston Rodeo, but three days prior to that, I, uh, just did an Asia and Australia Tour with the Jonas Brothers,  
Andy Leviss: Right on. So, you know, and we'll see, like, maybe, like, we, I definitely want to start with relationships. We might circle back and I, I have a feeling it'll overlap a bit about talking about transitioning back to being home from on the road if you're down for that.  
Kenny Barnwell: certainly man.  
Andy Leviss: But, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I guess, like, it's such a big subject, I'm not even sure where to start on it, but, um, I, I, Do you have a good spot you want to start kind of peeling this apart from and we'll, and we'll shoot from there?  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah. Well, I mean we can kind of start where Cole's question left off. I think my response to Cole's question was a little bit different than Courtney's response, but we had some similarities in there and I think I'd love to To always start when it comes to a relationship, uh, and whether you're from the road, a relationship from the road, or you're in a relationship and you're not traveling, it's important to be on the same dang page with your spouse or your partner.  
And that was, and that was kind of my response to Cole was like, if you can understand that you're building a future. Together with your partner, even though you might be the one that's heading out on the road and they're staying home and building the home front or taking care of the home front, you're actually touring together.  
And even though there's a lot of time spent apart, It's not so much a sacrifice as, as much as it's an investment into your future. And it's a hard one to grasp, man. It's a mindset thing more than anything, but it's about being on the same page. I think a lot of people get. Disconnected or feel disconnected in their relationships, uh, when they feel like, oh, well, my spouse is out touring, having a grand old time, and I'm here trying to hold down the home front.  
My wife and I just don't look at it like that. We are absolutely on the same page in a big way, and we have some strategies that we apply, uh, every single week to make sure that we remain on the same page.  
Andy Leviss: That's, yeah, that's awesome. And that's really key. And, and I think that's definitely a thing that I think applies, even if you're not touring, like, you know, if, if particularly like in our industry where we work in such, like, we're doing all these exciting things and it's really easy for partners who, who like may have a job.  
That's like a, that's more like an office kind of job or something like that. It's, it's really easy to get out of that perspective with what we do. And like, and if you're not careful to have, and don't mind being on the same team and building a thing together to end up, um, you know, just like on that track where it's like, oh, you're just going out and having fun all the time.  
And I'm, you know, sitting here in an office nine to five. And it's so, so I think for folks who aren't touring, like definitely keep paying attention to, cause I think there's a lot to take out of this just about relationships in general.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, look, at the end of the day, In events in general, even if you're not touring in events and you're doing events locally, you spend a lot of time away from your family man. I mean, a ton of time away from not just your spouse, but your, if you have kids, I have two children myself.  
I have a two and a half year old and a one year old. And, uh, which is if you have kids and you're listening to this, you know how much of a handful that is. And, uh,  
Andy Leviss: sounds like two or three handfuls.  
Kenny Barnwell: I mean, it's a lot, man, and my wife, um, not only does she hold it down, she runs her own business. My wife is an actor and a dancer, professional dancer.  
And so between taking care of the, the children's and their need, she's also, you know, doing self tapes and submissions and recording parts as well as doing class. And so she's got her hands full. Um. And me being out on the road, it's like, I have to support her from a distance. You know, let me, actually, let me rephrase that.  
I get to support her from a distance.  
Andy Leviss: like that. I like that. And that ties in with, uh, another friend, uh, both an old friend of mine and, and friend and, you know, past guest of the podcast, Alex Ritter, who also, like me, is from the Broadway world and pivoted into concert touring and elsewhere now, like when I had posted on the Facebook group just now that we were recording this episode to see who else had thoughts to share questions to ask, that's one of the things he mentioned like real quickly was that like One of the things that made it easier for him and Jen when he was on the road is like figuring out which parenting tasks He could help with from afar like if there's coordinating, you know doctor's visits or you know Helping plan out meals like he may not be cooking them or shopping for them but You know He can sit there on on the bus or the plane and like put together the shopping list and help come up with ideas so that She doesn't always have to focus on it.  
And like I thought that was a really cool way to You To, you know, keep that connection going and ensure the load so that it's not an unfair balance.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah, that's right. I mean, there are definitely ways like he's talking about to be able to make sure that you're supporting each other specifically. But at the end of the day, I think having that bigger vision picture, because look, you do not have to tour. If you're in events, I mean, at the end of the day, you can be locally, you can be regional, you do not have to tour.  
And so to choose to tour, that's a whole different level of, of reasons why, like what's the point of touring? Is it just the extra bump of money that you get from being gone all the time? Because if you really value family and your partner and stuff, wouldn't you want to be home more? Or what else is your reasons?  
for wanting to tour. And so my wife and I, we understand why dads, I always like to say, dad is going out on the hunt. You know, like the reason why I'm touring, uh, is something that my wife and I have both decided on. It's not just me going out on the road. And so I think not just the strategies of supporting each other like that, uh, those micro strategies, like he's talking about, But also that bigger picture, you know, if you can understand that we're actually building something, we're investing in our future together.  
And part of that future is me heading out on tour. Uh, it makes things a lot easier because fact of the matter is, Andy, it's not easy, man,  
Andy Leviss: Yep.  
Kenny Barnwell: not easy at the end of the day, it's not easy to be gone because if, if crisis strikes. And you're, you're away from home or like me, I just was in the Philippines and Indonesia and New Zealand.  
Like if you're across the world and crisis strikes and it's happened to me before, um, there's limited that I can actually do physically to be there to support her in some of those ways. I hear, here's a, for instance, we were doing a gig and my wife calls me and I'm literally about to sound check. And my wife calls me, it's like.  
I can hear my son screaming in the background, you know, and of course my heart just drops. I'm like, oh no, what's going on? And she's like, kind of freaking out in panic. She's like, I'm going to go up to the urgent care. You know, uh, Ezra had, my son Ezra has dropped this shelf on his foot and his foot started to turn purple.  
Andy Leviss: Oof.  
Kenny Barnwell: Excuse me. And so she was trying to freak out like, well, what do I do? I just go to the urgent care. This was like the first real big, you know, catastrophe. And I was like, hold on. And I just, my, my job at that point was to help calm her. Hold on. Let's, let's think this through one second. Urgent care is not far, but so is our pediatrician and let her in the right direction to just help calm her down and get her there.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah.  
Kenny Barnwell: Excuse me, Andy.  
Andy Leviss: All good. All good. Um, yeah, I'm trying to, I, I, I thought you were good, you had more to go, so I like lost track of the question.  
Kenny Barnwell: No, I just choked on, uh,  
Andy Leviss: Oh, no.  
Kenny Barnwell: choked on some water here.  
Andy Leviss: All right. You good?  
Kenny Barnwell: Actually, speaking of the travels, I just, uh, got a little bit of sickness on the way back from this last Australia trip, like most of the crew did out there. That's another thing. Excuse me, bringing back sickness.  
Andy Leviss: Yep.  
Kenny Barnwell: It is  
Andy Leviss: If I get it.  
Kenny Barnwell: it's actually something to really consider is, uh, when you, when you travel, bringing the crud back home with you. Just caught me there for a second.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. All good. All good. Um, yeah, so we were talking, we were talking strategies for, and kind of how, how you can help from, from afar when you're not. Um, I mean, do you have more on, on that you wanted to go with or, or shall we pivot?  
Kenny Barnwell: No, no, absolutely. I mean, there's so many different strategies to be helpful. Uh, and just making sure that you're on the same page. One of those things that we do, and this is something something that I encourage my crew coach members, our Crewsaders and crew coach to do, is have Sunday sit downs. This is something that my wife and I religiously do. We do it in person or we do it on Zoom at home we have done this for the past probably four or five years and we do this religiously.  
We do not make, we make sure that we do not miss this. If it, if it isn't on a Sunday, we'll make sure that we do it towards the end of the week or the top of the week, but basically. We make sure that we're on the same page of every area and aspect of our life because I'm an entrepreneur, I run a business called Crew Spire, Crew Coach is a part of that business.  
My wife runs a business as well, and then of course, parenting and home life, and then of course the touring side of things, and then the home side of things. And so there's a lot to cover, so from our finances, to our marketing. What we're doing with our kids, our fitness, our businesses, like literally everything, we break it down to make sure that, you know, I, I have declared my goals.  
She's declared her goals. We have our goals together. And then of course, we're our, each other's accountability partners. It's, I mean, I'm a career and life coach, so it's extremely important for me to make a lot of, uh, meaningful progress. And the way to do that is to make sure that you're on track. And that's one thing that my wife and I do religiously.  
Andy Leviss: That's all. Yeah. I mean I'm gonna start doing that this weekend because that's a that's a thing We haven't done and I know through many many relationships in my life. I That's that common thing of like just not only not getting on the same page But like doing it regularly seems like it's that's so key because it's so easy to Assume the other one knows what you're upset about or, or excited about or whatever.  
And then weeks later, like, have ended up so out of sync from it just because you're not checking in regularly. So like, that's, yeah, that's super valuable, man.  
Kenny Barnwell: Man, and also the accountability alone. You know, when you have somebody that knows your heart, that can also help hold you accountable. I mean, it goes beyond just being there for your, your partner as a friend, but literally being there to help you get your goals and your, your, you know, get you closer to your goals and the things that you want in your life.  
You know, I'm, I'm, when it comes, like I said, when it comes to making progress in my life, when it comes to my fitness. Um, especially being a touring guy, there's so many things that we should implement and should apply, and I am very active on the road to do those things. Things like my fitness, for instance, is a big one for me, and my wife always checks in on me.  
She's just like, hey, how are you doing? Are you doing your exercises? You know, like, that's a big deal to have that sort of accountability, not just for me supporting her on the road, but, or her at home, but her supporting me on the road is a, it is something that I think a lot of road people don't think about because they think of, in my mind, it as being one sided.  
You know, like  
Andy Leviss: I'm out here providing and  
Kenny Barnwell: that's right. And I'm going to say, how can I support her at home while she's with the kids? But see, it's a partnership, you know, when you have, when you're really on the same page and it's not just like, okay, well, dad's going to go out and work and then provide, you know, And call me when I need it and be an ear for me when I need it.  
It's like, listen, I'm on the road also going through a lot of pressure. And so that's one way that she supports me is she, she checks me and she is my, my biggest supporter. You know, she is, and we, and we're both like this, but we're very honest with each other. You know, like she will call me out on my BS.  
And, uh, and part of that is, hey, did you do your fitness? Because fitness is extremely important, especially on the road.  
Andy Leviss: yep, absolutely. And, and, and it's an, it's an easy one to let go on the road too. Like, even when I'm just traveling for like a week or so for a gig now, it's the first thing of like, yeah, I don't want to bother trying to find the gym. There's not enough space in this hotel room to do something in here.  
Just, it'll be fine if I skip it for today. And it's so easy to, to fall off that wagon and, and, you know, And so important.  
Kenny Barnwell: Well, hey, and listen, man, I am very aware in regards to the fitness thing. I'm very aware that most road people, uh, generally, um, don't have that sort of practice. But again, I'm a career and life coach and it's such an important thing for me to be the example. For our members, for our coaching members, but also for my, my, my kids, my children, and the example for her to let her know, like, Hey, look, I'm out here and I'm not letting myself go.  
I'm not allowing myself to get off track on the things that are meaningful to us. This is not just some thing that is, I'm having fun out here on the road. It can be a good time, but it's also something that like, I'm serious about building on the future that we're building together. Definitely,  
Andy Leviss: absolutely. And, and when we get back into the, like the, the life on home in between being on the road, there's the flip side to that too, of making sure that just because you're home and like kind of taking it easy, that you're not taking it too easy and not letting everything slide when you're home too.  
Kenny Barnwell: man. Most definitely. And so that's the, That's, that's some of that, uh, important strategy. That's that real key one, the Sunday sit downs, man. I, I recommend if you're listening to this and you want a, uh, a strategy to go after, Sunday sit downs, man. Uh, try and implement that in your life. And something that we do, again, on our Sunday sit downs is we, we have that future frame, like that future, what are we doing together and independently for this coming week?  
Um, we usually set three goals, you know, we have three hard targets that we set and then we, again, we, we schedule those in throughout the week and then we are there to hold each other accountable. You know, I understand that most people are not that specific and regiment with their goal setting and tasks and stuff like that, but this stuff really works when you implement it over a long enough period of time.  
Andy Leviss: Right on. Yeah. No, I can, I can see how that helps. And I know like particularly as somebody who like, I don't, I don't want to use the word struggles, But struggles may be the right word with like ADHD and stuff like that like it's if you don't do it that structured and that's the thing I always struggle with like it's it's really easy to lose track of things so I think there's definitely a huge value in in what you're saying and and taking that like regimented approach and like it also helps you keep things manageable like if you've got we're gonna focus on three things this week Then like that, that doesn't mean you can't pay attention to the other things too, but it gives you three concrete things to actually focus on and push towards, as opposed to like, you know, a never shortening list of 20 something things that you're just kind of flitting between all the time.  
Kenny Barnwell: That's right. And it creates a ton of overwhelm. I mean, when you have. Confusion. It will definitely create a bunch of overwhelm, but simplicity creates clarity and that clarity creates the confidence to be able to actually move the needle forward and have meaningful progress in our relationship, uh, on and off the road.  
And it's just such a, uh, a really simple but effective tactic that anyone can do, but we've been doing it long enough, uh, that now it's like medicine, man. Like we just don't go without it. And when we don't have Sunday sit downs for one of the weeks, and it's just like, you know, we can feel overwhelmed.  
Come on. We're like, it's because we didn't sit down with each other. It's because we did not take the time to actually talk, you know, about what we're doing, what was working, what wasn't working. Uh, because then you don't have accountability and all this stuff. And so it's one reason why I'm super bullish on Sharing these type of things with my crew coach members because that's what we do in crew coaches.  
We try to like example a healthy tour life and man, that's a big part of it is the Sunday sit downs.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. That's again, like, I, I feel like, you know, some folks are gonna feel like, Oh, why are they drilling it in so hard? But that's, that's, like I said, super important, super valuable. And like, that's already something I'm taking out of this episode. I'm like, Oh yeah. Like I. I wish I'd thought to do that sooner.  
And it's, it seems so obvious as soon as you hear it, but it's definitely not necessarily an obvious thing. Um, but yeah,  
Kenny Barnwell: and look another thing that is very helpful when it comes to these micro tactics of communication and making sure you're on the same page from the road is literally scheduling daily expectations of Each other. And so, like, for instance, one of my things, man, uh, is especially as a, as a dad, like, I just.  
I want to say good night to my kids. I want to say good morning to my kids. Uh, it's something that like, for me, these are like things they, these, they call boundaries, right? But like, these are my boundaries where I, I've told her, I'm like, hey, listen, I want to make sure that I say good morning. I want to make sure I say good night.  
I understand that you might be in, in an acting class or you might do, be doing a self tape or dance class. I understand that, but like, it's something that I, that I need. And so if we run up upon a schedule issue where I'm in the middle of a show at the time, um, or something like that, or a load in at the time of her ability to get the kids on the phone with me on FaceTime, um, then it's always a courtesy message.  
You know, like these are things, these are hard lines, man. Because when you're on the road, especially somebody like me that I love being a dad, man, I mean, it's like my favorite thing in the world is to be a dad and to be a husband. I want to make sure, uh, that I have the ability to communicate that. And she completely respects that.  
But at the same time, I also understand that she could be busy. And so it's never an argument. There's always a secondary. It's, Hey babe, I know you want to say goodnight to the kids, but I really need to put them down. I understand you're probably in the middle of the show, you know, or something like that.  
Right?  
Andy Leviss: cool. Cause I was going to ask what do you meant by courtesy message, but I thought you just explained it.  
Kenny Barnwell: That's right. You know, and these are, again, these are just, these are boundaries that we have. These are, but you've got to communicate those things. You know, a lot of, a lot of people fail to set these boundaries. You know, with each other. And I, and I look at boundaries as this, not like things that, you know, keep people out or keep her from, from not doing something.  
This is like a bridge to a better us. You know, I look at  
Andy Leviss: yeah, like things that keep you on the path.  
Kenny Barnwell: That's right, man, because I want to make sure that I'm being as present of a father as I can be for my kids, for instance, in this, in this boundary. Uh, and that's a way for me to be able to do that. It's like to get them on FaceTime, you know.  
It's what we got. I mean, it's the road, man. So there's that distance. So again, I was just in New Zealand. It's, it's kind of like hard to be there for your kids outside of FaceTime. And so having some of these hard lines, um, like that are really helpful, but can making sure that, that you communicate them and, um, and then it works both way, you know, really understanding too.  
Uh, and here's another, for instance, in the communication regard, and this is an important one is. We go through some pretty incredible stuff out on the road. The shows, they're high energy. Sometimes you're, you know, you're traveling around the world, you get to do these amazing things, and sometimes you want to call home and you're just like, hey babe, check this out, this is awesome, blah, blah, blah.  
But you got to also understand that she could have either just woken up, the kids are screaming and yelling and throwing food on the floor and all of this, like she wants to. Maybe have that ear of excitement with you, but really can't give you that, you know? And so, we have to also understand that like, when I call, it's not this whole excitement dump.  
It's we got to communicate. We have to learn how to speak to each other respectfully and ask each other, hey, what's going on? You know, like, do you have a minute? I've got something really exciting to tell you, you know, that type of thing, as opposed to just plowing right into it and then be like, well, why aren't you excited for us?  
It's like, well, it's because, you know, my son just threw up all over the floor and whatever, right?  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Like I got one hand holding a leaky, a leaky washer hose and like, and trying to fry an egg over here.  
Kenny Barnwell: right. Yeah. And, and vice versa, you know, there there's moments where I'm in the middle of work mode and she needs some questions answered. And, uh, we have just ways to communicate through some of those things.  
Andy Leviss: That's great. And that's, it's like a lot of these strategies you're suggesting sort of address one of the things, the other thing that Alex had mentioned when he commented on the post we made was, was the, the danger of being on tour. And because you're away from home feeling that like life at home stops and then coming back and expecting it to be exactly where you left it when it does and it's yeah it's it's tricky and important to keep that connection going so both a you're aware that no life at home didn't stop even though you weren't there but also staying connected with it so it's not rotating along without you.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah, for sure. And that's why it's so integrated, man. That's why we're, we're on the same page with everything initially. That's why we have these micro boundaries, uh, and these guidelines that we have with each other's communication and respect. Another, uh, really good one is, and this one is something that I learned from one of my coaches a few years ago, is about listening.  
So, sometimes we need to vent. You know, sometimes, whether it's her or me, we just need to vent and get something off our chest and we don't always want advice back, you know. And so, one of the very first things that when my wife starts in or I start in to vent, we say, hey, wait one second, do you want me to listen or do you want my advice?  
Andy Leviss: Yep,  
Kenny Barnwell: And we've been applying this tactic for years and it works wonders. It prevents so much misunderstanding and misreception, uh, because sometimes Especially me being the coach, man, I'm all the time wanting to unsolicit coaching. Uh, and I have to like, Hey, listen, do you want me to give you some coaching advice or do you want me to just listen?  
And that's been a tremendous help.  
Andy Leviss: yeah, there's, I mean I, I get that too, as like somebody who's spent so much of my life one way or another in tech support positions or in like on the gig troubleshooting, like my natural instinct is let's troubleshoot this and it's not, it's like there's the, the meme that uh, that went around on Reddit years ago of the You know, the boyfriend texting the girlfriend.  
Are you solution oriented about it or are you in the feeling stage right now?  
Kenny Barnwell: Right? Right.  
Andy Leviss: you know, I, like, when that went around, it was like, it was a joke, but it's like, I'd never quite heard it phrased like that. And it's definitely, that's, that's a tool I, I try to remember more and more is, yeah, checking in, like, are we asking advice or are you just trying to vent?  
Kenny Barnwell: That's right, man. Because, you know, we want to be there for them and we sometimes need them to be there for us. And sometimes I do want a wise ear, man. I got to tell you, man, I have so much respect for my wife. You know, she is one of the smartest people I know, and so I understand that, and she also knows me better than anyone.  
So she can give me some really grounded advice, but sometimes, man, I'm just trying to be like, listen, I need to tell somebody, you know, because here's something that I don't do on the road as a relationship thing, is I don't gossip, and I do not, uh, complain and bitch. Use my language to anyone out on the road.  
My wife is that guiding, uh, kind of, you know, anchor for me. And so I'm able to, uh or that grounded anchor for me. I'm able to share that stuff with her and, uh, and Get it off my chest. You know, us as guys on the road, we need someone to be able to go to, but we also have to understand that our spouses and our partners cannot read our minds.  
And so they're gonna try and help you 'cause they wanna calm you down. They, they wanna support you the best way they know how, which is to give you a bit of a word. And you might be like, well, I, I don't need to hear that. Right? Like, you gotta be like, Hey listen, I just want to, to tell you, I just wanna vent right now.  
I don't need any advice.  
Andy Leviss: yeah. That's, I mean, I think that even translates more broadly in relation, whether on the road or not,  
Kenny Barnwell: That's right.  
Andy Leviss: communicating, not, not just in that situation, but anywhere, communicating your needs, your expectations, and, and, on, on both sides of the coin, communicating where you are and not making assumptions about where the other person is.  
And that's, I think, like, every relationship I've been in my life, there's, the, no party is ever, like, fully responsible for that or the other. There's been times where I've had a partner who, like, makes assumptions about what I'm thinking or feeling, and I have to be like, whoa, hold on, that's not what I meant at all.  
And there's times where it goes the other way. And I think in any relationship, there's that give or take, and, and there should be, otherwise it would be boring,  
Kenny Barnwell: Totally. And Andy, I just want to also say to the listeners that are listening, look, we don't get this right all the time. I'm not saying that my wife and I are perfect in this. What I'm saying is, is we're intentional and conscious about it, which in order to be conscious about these efforts, you have to also have a finger on your own pulse.  
You know, and something that I am huge on, which is why I'm the crew coach, is personal development. The ability to really understand myself and increase my self awareness. You know, if I, if I didn't understand the things that heated me up or my triggers or my irritations, my frustrations, it would be hard for me to express those boundaries.  
To my spouse. And so it starts with really getting to know yourself at a deeper level. So you can even have that honest communication on the other side of things.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, that's, that's huge. And that's like, I mean, I've talked on the show before and about both, like, I even mentioned in this episode, like ADHD and also being on, you know, on a certain corner of the autism spectrum. And yeah, there's, there's a lot of self awareness that comes in as necessitated by that of knowing both what I need, what I want, and also how I communicate or how I sometimes fail to communicate.  
You know, like it's, it's a thing I'm still struggling to learn that, like, I know the way my brain is wired, like. I basically have two levels, you know, I'm either quiet or I'm excited and for me I think I'm like, I I think I'm just excited and passionate about something but to like somebody outside whether a partner or co worker Anybody like it can very easily read as why are you yelling?  
Why are you angry? And it's like I'm not angry You are you're yelling at me right now. It's like no, I'm I'm not I'm just excited I just I don't have as like subtle a grayscale of like those tones that the normal person has and there's you can get so far being aware of that and at least expressing that up front and then also just like trying to learn how much of that can I learn to modulate a little better and that sort of thing.  
Kenny Barnwell: Well, man, I gotta tell you in that regard, and I'm not going to coach you, but I would say, I would say lean into that and worry less about how it's received because man, that is such a, that is such a positive, um, having that awareness that that is part of you for sure. But how it's received. You know, I, I think, uh, I'm an excitable guy and, and a super passionate guy.  
And so I can certainly come on strong, but at the end of the day, um, I'm just me, man. And, you know, talking about our spouse, my, my wife is one of those people, um, that all the time is having to kind of like, Hey, babe, you know,  
Andy Leviss: Dial it back a little.  
Kenny Barnwell: right. But, but at the same time, she also knows that it's my superpower, you know what I mean?  
And so awareness of it is, is key. However, try not to, to hold yourself back, man, because it's going to be the thing that also is leverageable for the, For the future. And so didn't mean to get some, some coaching there.  
Andy Leviss: No, it's I'm not going to turn it down.  
Kenny Barnwell: Um, Hey, but listen, there's something else too. Um, from a touring aspect, we get to do some pretty dang cool stuff, man.  
I mean, let's be honest, you know, getting to travel around the world. You build up all these flight rewards and hotel rewards, if you're savvy enough. And, uh, one thing that is important to get to do is to bring. Your spouse or your family out with you when you can, and meaning like if there's any gaps in your schedule, say at the end of a run or at the start of the run, or in the middle of a run where you've got a few days, you've got extra flight points, like don't save them up for like, like bring them out, man, let them come do a show, use them, man, get them to experience.  
Part of what you're getting to experience, man, because for one, that's what those rewards are really for. Not to hoard them to try and save it for some other type of vacation, but it's such a cool experience for them to get to be, uh, involved a little bit in your world and to, you know, you got the free hotel room, you know, the flights, the food, the catering, like bring them out and come to a show.  
I just think that goes a long way. and if you have any questions or concerns feel free to put them  
Andy Leviss: I, I dig it. And, and, like, that even translates, uh, parts of that translate to, like, the folks who, like me, are working events as well. There's certainly, like, I know there's times I've gone for a gig out of town that's somewhere cool and it's like, let's see if we can work out the schedule so we can both go and we'll, you know, either go out a couple days early or stay on a couple days late and, like, tag a vacation onto it.  
Like, obviously in, in that world that's, like, often heavy, like, NDA and security, like, it's not necessarily, like, you're not going to come. Come to the gig and meet everybody, but like, we'll hang out at the hotel and you'll meet all these people you hear about. And yeah, there's definitely ways to apply that for the folks who aren't touring too, so I want to make sure we flag that.  
Kenny Barnwell: It's tra it's a travel career. It's a unique type of career. It's not just a job, it's a lifestyle. And if, and the more that you can include them and your family, um, the, the more connected they are with you. I actually had an opportunity to bring my family to New York City. My wife and I lived in Manhattan, uh, for a little while, but, uh.  
Andy Leviss: Oh. Yeah.  
Kenny Barnwell: We brought them to the city and they got the kids to see the city and while I was doing Saturday Night Live and Radio City Music Hall, we had a handful of days in between there because it was promo week and it was just a really good time. She got to meet people I worked with and so now when I'm putting or I'm saying names of people that I'm working with,  
Andy Leviss: she knows who you're talking  
Kenny Barnwell: right.  
And it just deepens all of it. It just makes things better. So I always pushed it to get to include them as much as possible in that type of stuff.  
Andy Leviss: That's, yeah, that's, that's awesome and super important. Um, see, again, I had a question and then right out of that, we went off on that tangent. It was so good that I lost my thread.  
Kenny Barnwell: Well, if I may, man, you know,  
Andy Leviss: No, go for it.  
Kenny Barnwell: another thing that this really adds to is also your mental wellbeing. I gotta tell you man, mental health has been such a huge thing and a huge conversation in the touring world and I just think that a lot of people are kind of missing what mental health is all about.  
But when it comes to having, uh, your family out there or having those boundaries or those communications, um, those type of things can really add to your mental wellbeing on the road. And I, and I just think that like. If you, uh, have the ability to bring your family out or you can set some of these guidelines, things like Sunday sit downs, um, those type of things, then it's going to increase your ability to have a happier road life.  
Andy Leviss: absolutely. Um, and I think I, I don't know if we, maybe we want to circle back. I don't know that this is the moment to pivot in it, but a thing, a thing that occurred to me as we were talking that I think is useful for the tour, because whether you're doing events or whether you're doing touring, it's, it's a bit of a transient thing, you know, depending on the act, like with particularly the acts, like you've landed with.  
There, there's a certain stability there that there isn't as other levels, but how, like, I'd love to touch a little bit on managing that and, and maybe managing the worry that a partner at home has with the, well, I know you've got work now, but. We don't know what you're doing after that and making sure that like they feel like taken care of and like planning that together and making sure you both have a voice in in planning that path.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah, man. Well, you, you're, look who you're talking to, man. I, I gotta tell you, it's one of my superpowers is, uh, is understanding how this industry actually works when it comes to getting the work and getting the gig opportunities. And what I mean by that is what you see from most people is they, they simply don't have a strategy behind getting gigs.  
They call the same, you know, five to ten people and they basically say, hey, keep it. Keep a lookout for me. I'm needing to fill my schedule if you got anything.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, I'm around, keep me in  
Kenny Barnwell: that's right. Keep me in mind, please. But something that my crew coach members, uh, are really pushed on, because, because this is, again, my superpower, which is developing and building community.  
Expanding your community and deepening your relationships. Look, this is, This is true. I actually have not ever had to ask for work in over 15 years. My schedule always stays full and the calls always come. And the reason why, um, is because of these strategies that I put into play. And so when it comes to my wife and how she feels about that, she is very secure that there's always another gig.  
My toughest thing is the fact that there's always another gig  
Andy Leviss: Yeah.  
Kenny Barnwell: to be honest  
Andy Leviss: that was, that, that was going to be my next question. Cause that's the thing I've been like, and like, literally, I think I was telling you before we started recording, I've spent half of today in a Google sheet trying to like track through my gigs for the year. Cause I made a pivot to, to, I've always done like some freelancing mixed in with other steady things.  
But, uh, basically the beginning of this year, I, I pivoted at least for now to Fully freelancing and trying to find that balance of like being able to, cause there's kind of two tacks that people take with freelancing generally, particularly in the events market where we're, we're talking like generally slightly higher day rates than in the corporate world.  
There are some people who bust their ass or still gone like 50 weeks a year, like they're on tour making tons and tons of money and then never home to enjoy it or like even doing it and just collecting that cash or, You can take it and say, hey, this is what I was making when I had like a full time gig.  
This is kind of my goal, maybe a little wiggle room past that. How much can I fill in freelancing to do that? So like I can work like maybe half the month and then half, half the month to, whether to take vacations, to do stuff around the house, take care of the dogs, take care of the kids, whatever. And that's the thing I've been going through now, figuring out how to kind of track and keep an eye on that forward and make sure that I'm getting enough work to like hit the budgets that I need to.  
And, but not overworking myself, and not underworking myself. Mm  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah, man. I mean, I completely understand and completely can relate to that. Uh, I've certainly, certainly been there, but man, look, it's got to be forward thinking. You know, that's something that my wife and I are bullish on is to make sure that we thrive in this life. We have both have some really big goals.  
Big goals. By the way, um, just to give you a quick context, my wife and I actually met on a tour. We were out on the Ariana Grande tour. Uh, like I said, my, my wife's a professional dancer and, uh, and so she was a dancer on that tour. Um, she's danced with a whole bunch of top artists, but, um, so my wife knows the touring game, uh, by the way, in, in a really deep way.  
But aside from that, my wife and I are very future focused when it comes to our finances and things like that. Like. You know, we're very bullish on purchasing, uh, assets, you know, things that make us money. Um, we're, we're very smart with how we spend our money, uh, how we invest our money, how we invest our time.  
And, uh, and so we just, we prioritize those things. You know, and have, I mean, my wife and I have been almost, or almost a decade together now. And so, even in the early days, it was always about, well, let's build together. Because eventually, look, we're young. Eventually, we can go and vacation and stuff like that.  
But it's always been about, like, we are not going to go and vacation until we feel like we can Financially deserve it. And, and so look, these are some of these hard lines, you know, it's hard to hear from, from, from about this sometimes. Uh, but that's the truth of the matter is where does your priorities lie?  
If you want some confidence and secure feeling, then make sure that you're prioritizing the things that matter most. And for us, it's like, we wouldn't allow ourselves to go and kick back. And until we knew that we could afford to do so relative to our goals.  
Andy Leviss: Mm hmm.  
Kenny Barnwell: to our goal, of course we could get by and survive and have some extra money and then go kick back and then go live that cycle again for a year, but why, why do that when you have a choice?  
We can spend a few years, which we have, but spend a few, three to five years early on in the relationship building some really solid foundation. financially to where, and of course now we don't even care to, you know, it's, it's about not needing the vacation. I mean, it's cliche to say, but not needing a vacation from the life that we love.  
We both love being parents. We both love being spouses. We both love her business and my business and all of what we do. And so, um, it's just a continuation of kind of building that. And so, uh, you know, it might sound a little bit, uh, egotistical to say that, I guess, but it's the truth.  
Andy Leviss: No, it's, I don't think it's egotistic at all. It's, it's, I think it's more self aware.  
Kenny Barnwell: Absolutely, man. And look, I'm, I'm definitely unapologetic to say that that is the case. That's just kind of how we look at it. But sad to say, and I coach so many people in this same regard of most people living To hopefully vacation at some point and then start the cycle all over again. So I understand the concept of like worrying about filling the schedule.  
Cause you feel like you have to,  
Andy Leviss: Mm hmm.  
Kenny Barnwell: you know, um, it's like I told you before, it's more for us about men, hopefully. I can like say no more times than not this year. I'll give you an example too. Um, something that we had to set ourselves up financially to be able to do this. Uh, when my first son was born, uh, I had a rule for like two years.  
I was not going to leave home for longer than 14 days.  
Andy Leviss: Mm hmm.  
Kenny Barnwell: in the touring world, that's a very difficult thing to do.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, unless you're weekend wiring.  
Kenny Barnwell: Well, but even still, some of those folks, you know, go out for a month once a year or so, right? Like, and, uh, and so, I turned down a whole bunch of huge tours, but then I had a whole bunch of huge tours that actually fit in that range, and I was able to go and, uh, Developed the right relationships and all of the relationships knew that like that's what Kenny was doing.  
And so those are the type of opportunities we're going to bring to him. And so for over two years I implemented that rule where dad wasn't gone longer than 14 days.  
Andy Leviss: that's great. And that's, and, and the thing you just said at the end there about like how folks knew that about you and brought it back, that's another important thing that I think translates, again, even past touring and even past relationships thing, that building, building those relationships with the people that refer work and hire work And communicating your limits, what they are and what they're not.  
So like, you have folks that know, oh, you know, that's not the right kid. Like, Andy's not going to be into that, but like, we'll call him for that other thing. Or, or we'll even call you and say like, hey, look, I know we would normally hire you for X. We need somebody for this. And I know it's, I know it's not what you, what you typically do, but, but, I know you can handle it, would you mind doing this for me?  
And that sort of thing. And that's, so much work comes out of building that communication two ways, and when you, when you turn down a gig, explaining why, and saying, look, like, you know I love working for you, I can't do this one because.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yes, and look, you know, I had hard lines with that on those years and uh, I just wouldn't budge. Um, and yes, having those conversations were key. People, people knew that like And look, people knew what, what my, my boundaries were, but here was the thing. I never assumed that they continued to know it goes back to keeping and developing and maintaining and nurturing your relationship.  
This, this goes back to that whole, do not just, uh, reach out to people when you only need something from them. You know, when you're trying to fill your schedule, you know, uh, And we've just never done that. And that allowed me the freedom and the flexibility to say no to some big stuff without worrying that I'm never going to get called again, because my name's always in the conversation.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. That's, that's keeping that looping. Yeah, checking in and just checking in to say, which, and I, I feel like you said that on, on last time you were on the show, like well before my reign, that just reaching out to people just to say, hey, like not to hustle for work. Just to like keep your face, keep your face in front of them, keep your name in front of them.  
And, doing it, uh, disingenuously either, like genuinely  
Kenny Barnwell: Oh yeah.  
Andy Leviss: caring to say, caring to say, Hey, and like, like you sort of do have an ulterior motive, but not doing it with an ulterior motive. Like it's a, it's a line to, it's a line to  
Kenny Barnwell: Look, man, it, there's. I work for myself and I work with all of these people. And it's a, it's a mindset. A lot of it is, is simply a mindset. And if I'm working for myself, I have my own level of standards, my own, um, you know, Processes and things like that, my boundaries. And so I communicate those things, but at the end of the day, these are, these is my community, man.  
Like I love these people. I love the people that I, uh, work with and that feed me opportunities because I give back to them opportunities. Like it is genuine. This is my, this is my family, man. I've been doing this business for 22 years and 20 of them on tour. You know, like, I love these people. I get people all the time reaching out to me saying, Hey, Kenny, if you hear of anything, I'm just like, man, the last time I heard from you was the last time you asked me this, you know?  
And so, and I'm not talking about those people. Um, there's a whole bunch of, uh, of people that I just keep in the conversation with, and it is about being genuine. If it's disingenuine, it ends up being so, you know?  
Andy Leviss: yeah, yeah. That's key. I mean, like. That's the thing, it's like, we, we said we were talking about relationships here and it's like, it's, you kind of got to both narrow down and expand what it is, because like, the, our entire business is relationships, there's personal relationships, work relationships, where they overlap, um, yeah, so I'm glad, I'm glad we're kind of touching on that whole spectrum of that, um,  
Kenny Barnwell: but what it does for your spouse or your partner and your family at home is it is when you develop a community and you know, and what people call it a network. I always say it's a community because network is so surface level, man. You know, I always like to tell people like, hey, You're in the same network as me if we're friends on social media, but I couldn't refer you for a gig if I wanted to, you know.  
It just doesn't work like that, right? And so, it's a community and, uh, I love expanding my community and deepening that community because when my wife sees me do it, she sees me do it all the time. Every single day I have something that I do called, uh, the Appreciation Text. I send three Appreciation Texts every single day.  
And she, she sees me do it all the time. That right there gives her enough confidence that when she sees me put in that type of work and then she sees the  
Andy Leviss: mm hmm,  
Kenny Barnwell: and then she sees the gig opportunities come that I'm turning down, of course she's going to be confident in it. You know, she's going to, of course she's going to be confident in that we're going to continue to build our mission because, dude, we have a mission together.  
Like my wife and I actually have a vision together. We're, we're headed somewhere. We're not just trying to pay bills. We're not just trying to save money randomly. You know what I mean? We actually have strategy and things that we're. Putting together and there's building blocks here to our future. And, uh, that's another thing that instills confidence in both of us on and off the road.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, and that's, I mean, I'll be the first to admit right now, like, that's the thing I've always struggled with, is like, I know, like, I, like, broad plans of, like, vague off in the distance I'm good at, but often, yeah, setting that specific goal and the, these are the four steps to getting there, is the thing that, like, Um, like at the point in my life now where I'm realizing like, well, I wish I had built those earlier, but you know, let's, let's do it now and let, and let's get a little better about that.  
And like, like I said, it's, it's funny, it's, it's ironic cause it's, I, I didn't with it, with this in mind, like, you know, schedule this recording with you this week. We've been talking about doing it for a little bit. Um, but it's like, it's very much a week where I've been like focused on, on trying to like put a little more focus in that and take a week that I, that I have mostly at home, you know, with some, with some downtime to really refocus and, and work on improving the, those blocks.  
So  
Kenny Barnwell: No doubt, man. Well, look, don't beat yourself up, dude. I mean, I coach so many people with this and even the people that are under my guidance every single week. Actually, every day I do a, uh, private podcast called The Crew Room every single day, seven days a week. They're basically micro coaching sessions for our Crusaders.  
And even the people that hear me every single day reminding them about these tactics and strategies and stuff struggle with it. You know, it's, it's tough sometimes, but we, but that's one reason why my wife and I are so confident in each other, um, is because we keep coming through for ourselves. You know what I mean?  
Like you gotta come through for yourself because the more times you talk about these goals or you set these strategies or these boundaries with each other and then you do not follow through with them, the more you deteriorate your trust in yourself and of course the trust in each other,  
Andy Leviss: Mm hmm. Absolutely.  
Kenny Barnwell: then you start to not believe in yourself and start to drop your confidence because you keep not coming through for yourself.  
You know, like, could you imagine if you had like some friend of yours sitting on your couch and you're just like, hey man, can you do these things around the house? And your friend's like, oh yeah, yeah, I'll do them. Absolutely. I'm going to do them. And then you come back from work from the gig and you're like, dude, did you do those things?  
And your friend's like, oh shoot, not yet. I'm going to get to them. I promise I'm going to get to them. Right. And then you come back from the gig again the next day and he still hasn't done them. And you're like, what the heck? Do you really think that you would trust? Your friend, but no, you, you would start to not believe that your friend's going to come through for you.  
Well, we do this to ourselves, man. And moreover, when you have a partner or a spouse at home, and then you declare all these things that you're going to do, and you don't do them, you start to deteriorate the trust that you have in each other. And so, And so my wife and I, we make sure that we compound our confidence and compound our trust by actually coming through for each other as much as possible.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. That, that's key. And I think I think it's key to figure out, like, in the stage of getting along to that, there's two ways for any combination, whether work partners, romantic partners, whatever, to have that mutual accountability. There's when it's true mutual accountability and watching out for each other, and there's when it becomes parenting, and you have to be careful not to slip into the, You're always the one pulling me along and dragging me along and making sure I'm on the road and I'm not doing any of it myself and I'm not giving it back to you and Yeah.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yes. And that stems on that personal accountability and self awareness because here's the way I look at it. You know, my wife and I, we both have some, Some goals for ourselves and our family, clearly, but we also have independent and personal goals, which, you know, I'm going to continue to support and, and reminder on or be that ear or that, that's that accountability for.  
However, we're both climbing a mountain together. There's no top to this mountain. It's all about growth. And if my wife is, you know, killing it, and she's like doing the thing and I'm struggling, I don't want her to look back and be like, what the heck, you know, and I'm not going to be ahead of her and look back and be like, why aren't you doing more?  
Right? Because at the end of the day, every time you look back and you start looking at your partner or your spouse, like they're not coming through as much, you're taking yourself off. You're taking the eye off the prize for yourself. You, you know what I'm saying?  
Andy Leviss: I know. That makes  
Kenny Barnwell: The reality is, is you're, you need to run your own path because they'll get there eventually, but you got to do it through example.  
It's why I'm an example on, on the road with my fitness, my nutrition, you know, the, my, my overall demeanor, my kindness, my consistency, all the things that I bring on the road is because I'm running up that race band. And I hope there's other people that, that are, that are shooting to be their best. Miles, my spouse.  
Being one of them, you know, but like I can only control what I can control in my portion of the relationship. So anytime I'm looking back, I'm judging, you know, I'm taking what's important and I'm putting it to the side. And what's important is me continuing on because me gaining momentum in the growth of my portion of the relationship will automatically empower her.  
We all are going to run our own race anyways, Matt. And so it's important for us to stay focused on us. And that goes to say the same thing. Um, even on the road as an employee or on the gigs as, as an employer in these shops or, or whoever you're, you have relationship with, it's like run your own race.  
Don't look back and judge because. You're going to slip up at some point too. You're going to go through some challenging times too. Your pace is going to slow up as well. And so you need to continue to focus on what's important. And that's a big part of supporting each other is going, I'm not looking back and judging her and she's not looking back and judging me when we go through those times.  
Make sense?  
Andy Leviss: Totally. Um, yeah. And like part of being that supportive is like, there's, it's like, you'll hear a couple say, and I know like in my relationship, I say a lot, I'm sure most other folks do like, you know, that one of the things a partner does is call you on your bullshit, but like there's finding that balance of them.  
There's the times to do that. There's the times to not. And if all your partner is doing is calling you out on your bullshit all the time, that's a problem. And that's probably not your partner's problem. At that point, it's probably, You're not listening enough to like what your partner is trying to tell you, even between the line and, and keeping that check on each other.  
Um, Yeah.  
Kenny Barnwell: way to do it, you know, and, and my wife and I are not perfect with this, but we're very conscious and self aware of how we do it, how we speak to each other. Um, but truth be told, man, anytime I'm going through the funk, anytime the coach is going through a funk, I can look to her.  
Uh, because I know for a fact that she's giving it her all, man. You know, she's giving it her all as an actor, as a dancer, as a, as a mom, you know, as a business owner. And, uh, and that alone inspires me. There's not much that she has to, to actually say. And first of all, my wife will call me out on my bullshit by basically saying, I thought that this is what you were doing.  
I thought that this is what you were wanting. As opposed to You know, talking down to me and talking at me and looking backwards because again, she doesn't have time to look backwards on the mountain to see me trying to climb my own climb, you know? And I wouldn't want her to. And so that's, some of these things are just ways to have a healthy relationship growing.  
From a distance, even.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. And that's like, that's like what I was saying, what I was saying before about, you know, like partners and parents, it's the same letters jumbled up in a different order, but it makes such a difference. And, and yeah, like nobody wants to be a parent to their partner and, and yeah.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah. I mean, you're gonna, you're just gonna have a whole bunch of conflict. And so, uh, that's just the way her and I, uh, communicate. And we, we've gotten here, Matt. You know, we've gotten here. We didn't start here, but these are some of the tactics that we've brought to the relationship on and off the road.  
Um, Speaking of which, another talk about bringing on and off the road, something that a lot of road people go through, and I talked about this in a reel the other day, is post tour depression. Um, and this affects even people with families. You know, you would think that when you go home and you're with your family, you're just like in it and it's awesome, right?  
Even people with families can have what's called post war depression, which is that feeling of disconnection, feeling that you, like, want to get back out on the road. And it's, it's, the reason what, why this happens is, is because of identity. You know, we end up leaving ourselves on the road because we think that these gigs are, are who we are. But the reality is, is These gigs are just what we do. Who we are is what we bring to everything that we do on and off the road. And one way to make sure that you have a healthy home life is to be present. And in order to be present and in the moment, you have to bring yourself off the road. You have to realize that the road is what it is.  
The road is just what you do, who you are, Um, and this is a very difficult one for people to understand. Especially road people is they have that experience. They missed the people. They missed the road. And they fail to bring themselves back home with them. And so something that my wife and I do, um, is we are really I mean, these days, we're really good at it, but we're really good at compartmentalizing our life in that way, to make sure that we're reminding each other that like, hey, you're home now.  
Like, be home now. Um, speaking of which, I think, was it Andy that was commenting, uh, about reintroducing, uh,  
Andy Leviss: Oh, Alex, yeah.  
Kenny Barnwell: yeah, yeah, if I wanted to touch, uh, upon Alex's comment there, because this kind of coincides with that is. When you get home, um, reintroducing, reintroduction, right? Like how to kind of make that work happy.  
And, uh, this is a big part of that, you know, being able to be present at home. But look, I am is as full up schedule wise as it gets. You know, on and off the road. I try to maximize my time. And, uh, one thing that I know a lot of road people try and do is try to set those hard lines of like, Hey, listen, when I get home, I need like two days to veg out on the couch.  
Good luck, bro. Like I don't have that luxury as a father of two kids and a, and a being a present husband and a present father, as well as a business owner. Like I am right in the mix, man. I just got back from Australia. I flew home from Australia. And if you've ever been to across the world, Australia, you know, like it's hard to get back on that time zone, especially when you've been across the world, but like when I came home, man, like I stepped right into it.  
You know, and, and my goal as a husband, um, is to make sure that like, I can be there for her. Like we understand that if my body just fails, dad's going to go rest, you know what I mean? But there's no time to veg out. And so like I stepped into it, I'm like, Hey babe, let me cook dinner. Let me take the trash out.  
Let me take the kids, you know, something that I did was. As soon as I got home, uh, it was my wife's birthday and we gifted her, I gifted her two nights at a hotel by herself.  
Andy Leviss: yeah, you go away. I'll take care of  
Kenny Barnwell: That's exactly what I did. The, the tour before that, I actually gifted her a five night stay, uh, out in LA so she could go and do dancing and acting stuff.  
And I took the kids, like, immediately. I didn't say, hey, let me take two days to veg out on the couch. I was like, look, you go, let me support you because I know when you come back, you're going to be coming back a more connected wife and mom and I'll take that as opposed to you trying to feel like you're playing catch up even when dad's home.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because the The way you're talking about going back in as opposed to how many people like hit that crash and then kind of build back up Strikes on the thing I was gonna say that I know one of the things that Becomes a struggle when we get off gigs and come home is that We basically work at dopamine factories.  
Like, that's our gig. Like, we're pumping that out, and like, you know, it's like, you, it, that's one of those industries where, like, you're gonna get hooked on the product. Like, we're pumping it out to the crowd. Like, we're getting all those dopamine hits, too. And I think a lot of what happens when we get home from gigs, get off the road, is you hit that crash, and you're going through a withdrawal.  
like you're going off any other drug whether it's whether it's illegal substances whether it's an antidepressant and like we all we all know if you've been off that the trick to to like coming off safely without like whopping yourself into a concrete wall is tapering off and like feathering into normal life so i think even if you're not a person who's going to spend the whole time you're off tour go go go go go dive in and quick like you're saying and then like kind of keeping that energy going and finding those sources for that dopamine hit As you're transitioning back into home life seems like a super valuable strategy to to even if you do have to ease off to do it more gradually rather than like, oh shit, I'm home.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah, well look, to each his own, I get it and I understand why road people do it and here is a big reason why a lot of road people do it. They do it because they're unhealthy, Andy.  
Andy Leviss: Mm hmm.  
Kenny Barnwell: I'm, look, I get it. I've toured now for a long time. I see the people. I, I understand what they're doing on the road and I understand the excuses that they're making.  
Look, I also coach a lot of people in success. In Crew Coach, we have, uh, we work under these four pillars and one of those pillars is called the core pillar, which is your physical and mental health. Everything is downstream of your physical and mental health. Everything is. And if you don't have your body in check, you're not going to have your mind in check, and when you go home, you are definitely not going to be as resilient and bounce back as, say, someone like me that is very intentional about my health.  
Right? And, uh, that I really do feel like is a huge contributing factor, um, to why a lot of road people crash when they get home is because they batter themselves, they beat themselves up on the road, and it's like they just have nothing left in the engine.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. And it also then becomes a cycle where that feeds back into it, where because you're doing that, you're not then building up that health and stamina and energy and, and everything. And then it, yeah, it just spirals real easy.  
Kenny Barnwell: It certainly does, man. And it requires a lot more than just mantras and freaking medicine, man. You know, there's, there's something that we, um, there's an acronym in the personal development space and I, we use it in crew coaching core power is have you taken your meds? And the acronym stands for meditation, Exercise, diet and sleep.  
Most of the time when people come to me, it's like, dude, I'm just like, I'm struggling. My mind's struggling. I'm feeling depressed. I'm feeling anxious. I'm like, well, have you taken your meds? Like, for one, do you, in this crazy touring world, especially, have you been able to stop and clear your mind of all the noise that's going on?  
You know, I don't know about you, Andy, uh, if you have any sort of meditation practice, a way to get quiet in your head, but  
Andy Leviss: I, I don't, and I, I should particularly as like, with all the ADHD stuff and dealing with that, it's, it's, I've tried getting on, on that, on that train a couple of times and I tend to fall off it and I, I, you're, you're inspiring me to focus back  
Kenny Barnwell: I, and I get it, man, because it, it is that difficult. Most people don't have some sort of practice to where they can get quiet, but this is something that I've practiced for a really long time, and it's something that, uh, Our Crusaders work on in Crew Coach in the core pillar, but like the meditation part of it is literal energy.  
It's the ability to quiet your mind in the craziness and get centered with yourself. You know, where you're not thinking in the future and you're all anxious. You're not worried about the past and you're all depressive. You're literally able to be present for a minute. And this, this compounds in you when you actually can make this a daily practice.  
It's been proven. You can look up the, uh, the documentary from Headspace on, on Netflix. They even talk about it on there where it's like, They've analyzed people in Mr. MRI machines, uh, that meditate and don't meditate. And there is a literal energy that builds up when you meditate and that, that you can actually use.  
And I don't care what type of meditation that you do, something that we do, uh, in crew coaches called OM meditation, you can Google it on YouTube. It's actually an audio frequency. And, uh, you basically match the audio frequency with the. With the sound of ohm, uh, and you, you do this 10 minutes a day, man, and it will literally change your life.  
The second part of that is exercise. You know, exercise, we all know, I mean, we have been told time and time again, if you move your body, you get oxygen, you move your blood, that it gives you energy, it gives you strength, it gives you stamina, and of course, when you feel good, you start to feel good about yourself, and then you start to have confidence, clarity, like there's all of this trickle down effect from exercise alone, but if you do this every single day, and something that we have, uh, in Crew Coach is, we do an M100.  
Uh, exercise, which is basically like a five minute hotel room on the bus, next to the bus, workout, five minute snap that literally will change the chemical makeup in your body and give you that sort of energy. The other, another component to that is diet, right? M E D in the acronym MEDS is diet. On the road, it is so easy to eat healthy.  
Here's what people say, it's too hard to eat healthy on the road. Which is BS, because on the road, you get fed four times a day, bus stock is usually of your choosing, you can either bring it yourself, spend your per diem on it, or you can ask for production to stock the bus up with some healthy stuff, and then on top of that, in catering, there's always a healthy option, there's always a green, there's always a chicken or a protein, like, It's a choice,  
Andy Leviss: It's, it's, it's not that it's, yeah, it's not that it's too hard to eat healthy. It's that it's too easy to eat  
Kenny Barnwell: Well, here's what I know about  
Andy Leviss: Those say, yeah, they sound like the same thing, but they're  
Kenny Barnwell: Dude, it is, it is easier to say no to a 300 calorie cookie than it is to burn 300 calories from exercise. It's a choice, man. And most people, uh, are not applying the willpower, the give a damn, for lack of better words, about their energy and stuff. And so, what we do is we say, it's too hard.  
And then, we go and crash, right? If you cared enough, you would. Plain and simple, you know, and, um, the final parts of that acronym, by the way, is the most difficult one for road people, which is sleep.  
Andy Leviss: Mm hmm.  
Kenny Barnwell: look, man, like that, this is the hardest one. You know, the road really pulls on you and, uh, the sleep one is, is tough.  
And so some of these strategies, like for instance, your eyes, like closing your eyes. Most people don't realize, but your eyes use like about 80 percent of your body's energy. I mean, it's the only part of your body that is attached to your brain, right? Like it is your part of your brain tissue, right?  
People don't realize that your eyes. You know, by the way, talk about audio. My, my parents are deaf. And so, by the way, I grew up with deaf parents and so they can't hear. And, and my mom, uh, or my parents, you know, talk about vision. Your eyes soak in so much energy because it's, it's receiving all of this data from the world.  
Just closing your eyes for 15, 20 minutes during the day, at some point. We'll give you a ton of energy back in your, in your body, like a ton of it. But aside from that, like understanding things like sleep cycles, you know, like it's not that you need a ton of sleep. I mean, look, if you can get six to eight hours.  
I mean, it's almost impossible on the road. Then, then do it, you know, do it on days off, things like that. But here's the thing. What are most people doing? They're not going to sleep right away after the gig. They're all jacked up. They're getting back on the bus. They're going to eat after show food. Then they're going to drink alcohol, which after show food and alcohol alone is going to kill your body's ability to actually get into deep rest.  
And then they're going to go try to lay in their bunk, bumping down the road and try to sleep. They're not going to ever get in deep enough sleep because their body's going to be digesting food for during the first two hours of their, of their short night, you see. But it goes back to choice, man. You don't have to drink the alcohol.  
You don't have to eat the after show food. It's a choice. And if you do, then, you know, you have to understand what's going on in your body. You have to understand what you're doing to yourself because what most road people do is they blame the conditions and the lifestyle on the road as to why they can't seem To have the energy, but here's the problem.  
Then how do I do it? You know what I mean? Then how do I do it? And that's kind of like the, the biggest thing being, you know, crew coach is like, as the example of look, man, I'm taking my meds every day. Most people that are, are. struggling with mental health, have, have screwed up physical health and they're not taking their meds, the acronym meditation, exercise, diet and sleep.  
And then when they go home, of course, they can't be there to support their partners because they crash.  
So   
Andy Leviss: No, it's all good. it's all good. That's,   
Kenny Barnwell: I know I got a bit passionate there, Andy, but it's something that  
I'm,  
Andy Leviss: Yeah,   
Kenny Barnwell: I'm super passionate about this conversation because most of the people that are talking about mental health and health in our industry are some of the most unhealthy.  
People, there are people that are literally talking about how to be healthy and they're some of the most unhealthy. And so, it's just a conversation that I'm super passionate about because I'm an example of how you could be healthy on the road. This isn't about eating freaking salads all day or pumping iron at the gym.  
I mean, I just gave some simple strategies that would take you 5 10 minutes of your day to get right. And to choose right, if you want to gain so much energy back and have a lot more clarity back and sound mind back, you know, and it's just about choice. Did you take your meds?   
Andy Leviss: I'm gonna remember that and it's funny. You know, it's funny I actually I said I said I don't really meditate I I realized as we were talking as we got on to exercise that actually one of the things I value very much about the The gym that I've been using Which actually at this point is over zoom because they started doing that during the pandemic and have and have kept like a zoom Version going so it's like classes and it's great because it's like a class with the same people You You know, every day, like still lifting heavy weights and working and that flexibility to do it from wherever I am.  
And one of the things I actually really value about that, that like I hadn't even consciously thought about till we were talking about it is that the very last thing they always make sure to do in cool down is like, Take a minute, just like either sit, lie back on your mat, you know, whether you're like full on meditating or just like just taking your breath in and out and just refocus is like the very last thing you do before you go back to the real world.  
And so I realized that I actually do do that like five days a week. And that's the thing. And that's the thing I'm going to try and build on a little more.  
Kenny Barnwell: Yeah, man. Now that's a, that's a great thing. And you also brought up a good point because we're talking about relationships here is if you're in a program like that, that's virtual and you can do it from the road and your wife or your partner  
can, can be there too. That's something else that you can experience.  
Together, my wife and I honestly do some of that together. Something that my wife and I have is we have date night every week. And, uh, from the road, what that looks like is we do things that kind of push us out of our comfort zone so we can kind of get to know each other a little bit more. Look, I know we've been together for a long time, but, um, there's always depths to us and, uh, something that my wife is, is a professional dancer.  
I only look like a dancer. I'm kidding. And so, uh, That's something that we've done from the road. Talk about virtual classes is, is like, you know, dancing, like, hey, whatever you can do to, to stay connected with the things that matter most, because that's what another thing that goes back to it all is, why would you do the Sunday sit downs?  
Why would you have the boundaries? Why would you take your meds? Because you care about your representation of your side of the relationship from the road. Or do you? Right? I mean, it is a choice and, uh, you know, I would rather challenge your listeners here, uh, on this podcast to, you know, for, for fear of them feeling like I'm pompous, um, I would rather challenge them to want to try to ask themselves is like, hey, are you actually, are you actually doing this?  
Are you implementing any of these things or are you making excuses because if you don't make excuses, you take responsibility and start actually doing some of these things, you'll probably notice your relationships bettering from the road,  
you know, you'll probably notice your, your energy levels and the more, um, clarity and confidence that you have for your partner increase, you know, uh, and your overall happiness because look, man, like you got to understand something, you are The other side of the relationship.  
You are the thing that they love more than anything. Why wouldn't you want to do your best to be your best? It's a choice and, uh, I'm just choosing to, to do that because I, I care about myself enough. To care about my spouse enough to also be the example   
Andy Leviss: Well, that's, I feel like that's probably the perfect moment to button that up on. Like that just, you just tied it up with a nice bow right there. I mean, if, if you've got any last things you want to add in, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to stop you, but I...  
Kenny Barnwell: Nah, man, I just want to say thank you so much for, for having me on. I just, I, like I said, I love talking about this stuff. I love relationships. I love my wife. So much respect for her and, uh, much respect for you. What you're, what you're doing here. Uh, taking the reins on the podcast, man, you're doing a great job, and I'm stoked to see what you're gonna be doing with it even more.   
Andy Leviss: I really appreciate that, dude! And I think our listeners are going to get a lot out of this, even if they're not touring, so thanks so much for sharing so generously with all of us!

Before we leave, folks, a quick reminder that if you've got any feedback on the show, questions for us, guest suggestions, or tips and tricks you'd like to share, there's a couple ways to send those to us. If you want to leave a voicemail for us, you can go to http://speakpipe.com/s2n right from your phone or laptop, or you can email us either a regular message or an audio file at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com. That's signal, the number two, noise at prosoundweb.com

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Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green

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