Episode 242 - Mark Russie

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Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green

 Andy Leviss: 
Hey, welcome to this week's episode of Signal to Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss, and before we get started, just a little bit of housekeeping I wanted to put out there with everybody. 

First of all, we'd love to hear from you. If you've got suggestions for us, questions, uh, if you want to put us in touch with somebody you think would make a cool guest, or you think you'd be a cool guest yourself, we're always open to emails from you, so shoot us an email at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com and let us know, we'd love to hear from you. We'll write back if we can, and maybe even read your email on the show. 

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So, this week Sean's off because he's a little bit slammed with some projects he had going on, uh, and, uh, we've got an extra special guest co host joining me, but before I introduce them, we're going to try a new feature that Sean and I have been planning for a little while and are excited to introduce to you. 

We've talked about it on the show notes, but we realized we haven't actually mentioned it on the show, which is that we want y'all to send in some questions you want us or, uh, guest friends of the podcast to answer, as well as, uh, tips and tricks that you might have that you want to share with listeners.  
So if you've got anything you want to send to us, Uh, you can either record it yourself and email that audio file to us at the same email address we said before, signal to noise@prosoundweb.com. Again, that's the number 2. Or, if you go to a special voicemail website, we've set up -- http://speakpipe.com/s2n -- that'll let you record an audio file for us up to about two minutes long, uh, right in your browser, right on your phone. Uh, for this purpose, you don't have to go crazy with studio quality. Um, you know, it's, we want it to be authentic. So if you've got questions or tips you want to share and potentially hear on the show, send them along to us and we'll see what we can do.  
And to start it off, this week we've got a question from a listener who's actually, since he submitted this question to us, become a guest as well, Cole O'Malley, who you would have heard a few weeks ago on the Carolina Crown episode. So here's Cole's question.  
Cole O'Malley: Hey guys, my name is Cole. I'm 21 years old and I'm currently in audio school. I'm about to graduate and hopefully going. to work in a warehouse somewhere and eventually go into touring, but I've been in a relationship for about five years now and I was wondering if you guys had any relationship advice when it comes to touring and being in a long term relationship.   
Andy Leviss: Now, since Sean and I don't tour these days and neither of us was in a long term relationship in the time we have spent on a bus, we weren't sure we were the best folks to answer this, so instead we reached out to some past guests and friends of the podcast who we thought were the perfect folks to answer this question for a call.  
So, uh, first, uh, here's one answer from Courtney Klimson, long time friend of ours and co-founder, along with her husband, Paul Klimson, of the Roadie Clinic. Here's what Courtney had to say.   
Courtney Klimson: Hey Cole, congrats on five years with your partner and great question. This is Courtney with the Roadie Clinic.  
Uh, my husband and I have been married for 20 years and the best of friends for 25 years. So here are a few key things that have helped us maintain our marriage and hopefully we'll The first is boundaries. Create them, share them, enforce them. Like we've learned that we really shouldn't plan anything for the first 48 hours that Paul's home because exhaustion is real and he just needs time to crash in front of the TV doing absolutely nothing and just sleeping.  
The second is communication. We have little codes we use, like STC when we're apart. STC in a text means I am sleepy, tired, and crabby. Uh, another one that we use is the at symbol, which means, shh, shut up until I tell you I'm free, shut up. And both of those things just ensure that neither one of us gets our feelings hurt, and neither one of us gets paranoid or freaks out about where the other person may be.  
The other thing we use is a calendar system. Find a good system, um, one color means home life, another color means, hey this is a gig and we talked about it and we agreed to it and I'm taking it, another color means I've been offered a gig but we still need to talk about it, et cetera. So find a good system of communication to keep you both in tune with each other.  
And then finally figure out what makes your partner feel loved and work on routines and outside of the box ways to make that happen from a distance. For me it's together time and so we do our best to start our mornings together, um, just talking about anything that's not related to the gig. So finding ways to make people feel loved is a win, and hopefully that'll all help.  
Andy Leviss: The other person we thought would be the perfect person to offer an answer for this question is another recent podcast guest and all around great guy, founder of CrewCoach, Kenny Barnwell. And here's what Kenny had to say for Cole.   
Kenny Barnwell: You know, touring is a calling. It is not just getting a gig. It is a lifestyle career.  
And in order to have a healthy, happy relationship on and off the road, you must come together to make the choices and the decisions for that career growth. Because remember, the part of themselves that they love the most, a. k. a. you, is leaving home to go and build a future. And it must be understood between both of you that you're building a future for both of you and not just for you to experience the tour life.  
For instance, talking about how the first few years might go, where you're going to have to submit to the schedule and the company's need from you, and then understanding that where it can go. is being able to be a lot more selective to where you'll get to tour, but also get a lot more home time. For instance, do you want to go on those big pop tours where you're only home for a few months a year?  
Or do you want to go and weekend warrior with country or Christian bands and be home every week? And if you guys can sit down now and look at what that could look like over the next five years, then I think that In the early days where you really need to submit to the work, you'll be on the same page and it won't be as difficult.  
Look, it's hard. And so it's important to have some strategy in place to be able to continue to nurture and deepen your relationship from afar. Some of the things that my wife and I like to do is we have clear cut expectations of each other when it comes to our communication throughout the day. We schedule a call for the mornings when we first get going and before we go to bed if one of us does end up going to bed.  
Before the other there is always a courtesy text message or something like that. It's just a way that we're able to remind each other that we're always considering each other. Another thing is I actually personally have an alarm set on my phone at noon every day to remind me to. Tell my wife how I feel about her and the reason why I do that is because it helps me continue to deepen the relationship of the most important relationship that I have.  
Another thing too is really taking advantage of the tour schedule and the rewards and opportunities to bring your spouse out to shows. There's going to be a lot of opportunity to do that and you want to make sure that you work to make that happen. However, more than just the relationship strategies that you're going to need to implement to make sure that you Respectfully stay communicative throughout your tour days.  
Is that original reason why, that original purpose, man, when you are on the same page as to why you are on the road and you've left home to go and do this career, it becomes an investment in your future together, not a sacrifice.   
Andy Leviss: So Cole, and anybody else out there looking for suggestions about maintaining a relationship on tour, I hope, uh, both of those answers from Courtney and Kenny were helpful.  
Um, and if anybody out there listening has their own suggestions, uh, for Cole's question you want to send in, go ahead and record it and email it to us, or again go to speakpipe. com slash s2n and both of those addresses are in the show notes. And, uh, hit us up and maybe we'll pop some more answers in or, uh, some new listener questions in a future episode.  
And now that we've done that, now it's time to introduce our guest. But before we do that, let me introduce my, uh, guest co host fill in for Sean this week, Aram Piligian. And did I pronounce it right or did I mess it  
Aram Piligian: Yes, you did. On the first try. Look at that.  
Andy Leviss: I don't always do that well. I was like, I got, I'm 90 percent sure I got it right this time.  
So, uh, yeah, I, Sean had to tap out for this week and I was trying to figure out who we could ask to join in. Aram's a smart dude and has lots of corporate audio experience, which is going to be relevant when, uh, we introduce this week's guest in a couple minutes. So, uh, how you doing?  
Aram Piligian: I'm doing pretty well. Uh, happy to drop by once again and, uh,  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, no, and it's, it's good to have you here, like I, like we were saying before we started recording, like we've, we've chatted tons on Discord and like elsewhere, like we've never actually talked face to face even virtually, so I'm, I'm excited to have you joining in. Uh, why don't, you know what, for, for kicks and, and, and to set myself up for something for a few minutes from now, uh, why don't we do a quick, uh, we'll, we'll pull it out of the bag and do a quick, uh, what's the coolest thing in arm, in arm's reach?  
Aram Piligian: You know, I was, I realized just before we started that that was going to happen. And the coolest, coolest is a very, uh, coolest is a very relative term, but the one thing that I definitely do have within arm's reach is this massive pile of lanyards from corporate gigs that I've done. And  
Andy Leviss: It's that season. Everybody's going through the spring cleaning. I've been seeing all the Facebook posts, particularly because Fashion Week just ended here in New York. Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go out of order before I ask, uh, our guest. I'm gonna pull up mine because I might have set myself up for this one, and the coolest thing I have in arms reach is a lav magnet, one of the go to tools in my toolkit, and the reason our guest is here, because our guest this week is Mark Russey, the creator and manufacturer of the lav magnet.  
So I hope I haven't stolen the thunder of what you were going to try as your coolest thing in arms reach, Mark, but uh, what you  
Mark Russie: Uh, well, let's see, what do I have the coolest thing in arms reach? Well, here's this, here's this cool little thing that I got sent from a, uh, promotions company. They keep trying to get me to buy all this weird little stuff. And this one's this, I don't know what it's supposed to be, but it's like some weird flashlight.  
That is really bright and terrible, and made of the cheapest plastic you could ever see, but it has my logo on it! They sent it out! They keep trying to get me to get this stuff. I'm not gonna buy it, because they want like four dollars a piece for these. That's too much for me. Too rich for my  
Andy Leviss: Oh, that's, that's, I know that small manufacturer business well, um, but why don't, why don't we rewind then? Um, and we'll explain to folks what the lav magnet is when we get there, but why don't we start, like, what's your, what's your background, Mark? What's your origin story?  
Mark Russie: well, I'm a guitar player, like a lot of You know, audio guys end up starting off with and end up being in the career and, uh, in my quest for guitar, I, um, landed in the stagehands world with, uh, Ayahtzee Local 720. Uh, it was kind of a weird thing, cause a friend of mine had a neighbor who was running a place called Las Vegas Scenery Studios at the time, and they had a little shop called The Prop Shop that did a lot of decor for shows, and there was a union strike, and he called all his neighbor friends to come and do a show, it was the New Year's Eve gala at the Las Vegas Hilton, and I was Brought out to pull the balloon drop string for the, and I didn't realize I was crossing a union picket line.  
We got a lot of, there was a lot of heat that night. There was a lot of heat, and then, uh, and then I went down to the union hall, tried to sign up, but I wasn't old enough. They kicked me to the curb, said come back when you're 18, and  
Aram Piligian: couldn't just hide in the pile of balloons.  
Mark Russie: no, I don't think that was gonna work. But, uh, but yeah, so came back around when I turned 18, got Pushed out, it was closed books. A year later, I was driving by and happened to stop in and somebody didn't show up for orientation and I got the in. And it took me 10 years to get A listed through there because I don't have any family in that business.  
Uh, my family all comes from the glass business. So in the meantime, I was building Las Vegas and putting glass on all the high rises while I was trying to freelance and learn audio and work my way into that. No college, no schooling or anything  
Andy Leviss: That's why that's so cool. Like Mark was sending me photos when we were, uh, you know, going back and forth setting this episode up of some of the, some of the places you put glass on. That's definitely an uncommon thing for folks on this podcast. Do you still do any glass work at all? Or is that all in the past?  
Mark Russie: No, not at all. Not a chance. I ain't going out on a high rise. Not getting on a swing stage going 150 feet in the air. No, thank you. Yeah, no thanks. I, uh, yeah, I'm good with having my little sweat shop here in my garage.  
Andy Leviss: but it's a dry heat,  
Mark Russie: Yeah, let me tell you, it's a hot one.  
Andy Leviss: uh,  
Mark Russie: Dry or not.  
Andy Leviss: well, okay, so, so you got into Local 720 and we're like, just strictly doing audio, doing a little bit of everything,  
Mark Russie: No, I had to do everything. I had to start off with pushing gear and, um, doing a lot of carp calls. Doing a lot of, uh, like decking and stuff like that. Just kind of slowly but surely worked my way into that other side of things. It's not an easy thing to break into in this local, especially then, in the 90s, it wasn't a whole lot of work for up and comings.  
You had to be somebody or have family to, to get it going. Like, literally, they had closed books.  
Aram Piligian: did you find that having that little bit of construction experience helped when it came to doing like carpentry, decking and all that kind of stuff?  
Mark Russie: Absolutely, and rigging and stuff like that, and, you know, I had no fear of heights, obviously, from being on high rises. So, when it came to running, like, like running the, the Fifty six pair of Snake up in the catwalks of the convention centers and stuff. I'm your guy, so I'll go right up there, no problem.  
Heh, you know. Turned into a lot of hard work, but it was worth it. It was, you know, got me paid, fed my family.  
Andy Leviss: saying? There's that, that insurance, like, look, there's good and bad about working on, on union calls. Like I've talked before, I'm, I'm Local 1 here in New York, but you certainly can't knock having the insurance and retirement funds. Now,  
Mark Russie: collect my retirement yet, I'm not old enough. No, I'm just making my living on lav  
Andy Leviss: Um, so we should talk about that. I mean, I assume that stemmed out of your work as, as, as an audio engineer. Yeah.  
Mark Russie: Oh yeah, absolutely. Drove me insane having to do all the stupid little tricks on people's t shirts and women's dresses with, you know, cardboard and tape and, you know, turning this that the other way and everything else. And I had always searched for a, you know, a solution. Nobody ever really had it.  
Except for Sennheiser had  
Andy Leviss: Yeah. The little necklace with the little magnet pendant.  
Mark Russie: Yeah, I think they used it for the Springer show, cause That was, everybody gets their shirt ripped off and where are we going to put the mic now?  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, so I guess we should probably take a step back for the listeners who don't know and explain what exactly the lav magnet is, because I know, I think the three of us clearly know what they are, but I know there's some folks listening who might not, so.  
Mark Russie: I like to call it the coat hanger of the lavalier world. Hang your clip, any clip, any mic on it, you know? Sticks right through and they're made of, so it's a, I mean you've seen them, it's a um, Set of magnets, with a loop on it for you to hang your alligator clips, so you don't have to take your alligator clips off.  
I made it so it's universal. And, uh, and then behind your shirt, the little stabilizer stick allows your mic to wanna When your mic kind of wants to lean forward from the weight of the mic, the stabilizer keeps it in place and lets it kind of just drift slightly forward so you're talking right over the diaphragm.  
And it's also measured so that it's right in the right spot, that far away, four inches from your face.  
Andy Leviss: Oh, see, that's, I never even caught that part. Yeah, so like if, if you haven't seen it, and we'll obviously link to it in the show notes, it, the, the backside of it with the stabilizer stick sort of looks almost like a little, like, almost a mini lollipop. Like, there's a little, there's the flat magnet disc at the top, and a little, you know, plastic stick that sticks out, and that goes under the shirt, and then, and then the part that the magnet clips onto is on the front, and it's, and then, and then there's also the, uh, you call it, what is it, the belt pack bar?  
Is that what the,  
Mark Russie: Belt pack bar, yeah, yep, yep, that's for hanging your transmitters and uh, for your IFB,  
Andy Leviss: yeah, and it's basically take that, that back half of the lav magnet bar and put a magnet on each end, like a little barbell, and two of those you can sandwich together and just clip any pack to. And that's the part that first caught my eye on a job, like a set of both of them showed up on a gig I was on a couple years ago.  
And I was like, what? Ooh, and you, you clip the belt back to it, and it's great, because you can like when somebody doesn't have a pocket, or you're trying to do a quick change on a coat. You take the, you slip the one bar under the clip of the belt pack, reach it up under the back of the shirt, stick the other bar on the outside, and you're there.  
It comes off quick, comes on quick, you don't have to sit there like, snaking into a pocket, or, or, you know, if you've got a female presenter, or somebody else who doesn't have anywhere to clip it to. It's way easier to find something you can sandwich it to. And then I saw the, the lav bar side of it with the stabilizer stick.  
And I remember my first reaction was like, that is comically large. Like, why? Why would I want that? And then the first time I had a presenter with a floppy blouse and remember like, oh, right, he calls it a stabilize. That's what it's for. And tried and I was immediately sold. And it like, in fact, it was a gig that I was the broadcast A1 on.  
And in the studio down the hall, they were just struggling to get the mic in place, and they put it here, and yeah, put some tape behind it, and it was flopping over, and I was like, wait, I've, I've, you've got that, that lav magnet by there, right, yeah, let me come over, I'll show you how to use it, and I run to the other room, put it in there, and we put it in with the sticks facing the right way, and instantly solved it, and before the shoot was over, I think they went online and ordered another five, so, yeah.  
So,  
Mark Russie: I just had a nice young lady from Canada call and leave me a message about the lav magnet and talking about how, um, she saw it and her audio people were struggling and they were putting the lav in her hair.  
Andy Leviss: yeah.  
Mark Russie: I couldn't believe it, I was like, wait a minute, in her hair? No, not in her hair,  
Andy Leviss: from the theater world, so we do that all the time, but that's for a very different purpose and sound. Yeah, if I try doing that on a corporate gig, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get shown the door.  
Mark Russie: You're so fired. You're gonna get 86'd out of the property. Yes, indeed. I've seen people put the transmitters on like, like, on their shoe, on their boot, and stuff like that. Like, all kinds of crazy, stupid stuff, and just, I couldn't take any of that anymore. And I always heard the I always hear the same old story from audio guys, oh, they should know they're coming to present and they should wear something appropriate.  
But then again, it's not their problem where you're gonna put your microphone. They're dressing to, for success for their thing. They need to look a certain way for their people, for their group. They don't want to think about what your job is. It's hard enough to get up there and present, you know?  
Aram Piligian: And there's definitely something to be said for the idea of presenting someone with a solution that's very slick, very clean. It's not like arts and crafts time at the back of the room or backstage before they go on. Uh, fussing with gaff tape and everything. It's like, oh, you're projecting confidence by knowing how to use this tool.  
And that just helps them out too.  
Mark Russie: Yeah, it helps them in their presentation. They're not as nervous getting on stage. They're confident in  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, that's been a, that's been such a big thing for me, because, yeah, like, I'm Yeah, it's always like our job, particularly when we're in that A2 seat, like making folks up is such a, it can be such an awkward thing and it can be such an intimate thing real quick and they're uncomfortable. You can be like, you don't want to make them more and anything you can do to get in and out there quick.  
Like I've had, like I had a female CEO of a large corporation actually on that first job that I, that these showed up on. That, the belt pack bar, I just like, she's used to like, oh, like if you need to clip it to the waist of my pantyhose or anything, like, and I'm like, no, it's already there. She's like, what do you mean it's already there?  
I'm like, Magnet, it's, it's on your coat already. Move around. That feel okay? And she was like, I like you. And that was in, and that was the first time you and I messaged when I, I ended up ordering, again, ordering a five pack before the day was over. Um, yeah.  
Mark Russie: thank you for that. I'll have to send you some other ones. I'm fiddling around with colors. I had a few people ask about if I could do colors, so I'm working on that. One guy in particular said that he likes to put the transmitter inside the dress, and then the belt pack bar stands out on the back of the dress.  
So they got a green dress on or a red dress on, they got a black belt pack bar, just stands out and he's asking if I can do colors. I've had a few presenters ask me about that too. Believe it or not, I get a lot of orders from actual  
Andy Leviss: that's, I love, I mean, I, I, Aram, I assume you would say too, like any presenter that's actually invested in making themselves sound better in our job easier is like, that's, that's gold.  
Mark Russie: right? Yeah, one of the bigger corporations had their, uh, their function and, uh, and the audio guy had three of them. They had six female presenters. So that company turned around and bought 16 of them that day to make sure all their  
Andy Leviss: That's awesome. And,  
Mark Russie: So they never have  
Andy Leviss: so, and you make them all yourself.  
Mark Russie: Yes, I make them  
Andy Leviss: So let's talk about that. Cause I,  
Mark Russie: Mold, mold  
Andy Leviss: cause I'd love to talk about like how that and how you went from like having this idea to making it happen. And I, I think I remember hearing that there was like a little bit of like, you reach out to manufacturers who basically told you it wasn't possible.  
Yeah.  
Mark Russie: it would cost me upwards of 200, 000 just to see if my idea will work. And there's no guarantee that's gonna, that it's gonna work. And most of them said, well, you just can't mold inject magnets. If it gets too hot, it degausses them, and then you'd have to re shock them to try to get them to magnetize again, and wouldn't have the same strength, and a lot of different, I went to a guy down in, uh, down in San Diego, down around San Diego, And went into his shop with the 3D printed version and he said, well, it could be done, but we'd have to, it'd be labor intensive.  
We'd have to have somebody sitting here making sure they're polarized the right way and this and that. And then if the machine may de gals them because of the heat of the machine and it would be slow, we'd have to slow it way down. We couldn't keep the molds hot enough and a million different reasons why we couldn't do it.  
Um, so, I just went to work figuring it out, and got some tools, and started trying stuff. I almost thought it wasn't going to work. At one point, I almost gave up. I kind of sat in the backyard going, I guess all those manufacturers are right, and I'm an idiot. I shouldn't have spent all this money. My wife's going to kill me.  
But, uh, yeah, I just, I got lucky on a few things, and I just kept trying different stuff. You know, typical guitar player, keep trying different ways till you find the one that works, kind of thing.  
Aram Piligian: So was version one essentially leftover guitar parts that you kind of futz together into something that looked  
Mark Russie: no, actually version one was, I had purchased a 3d printer for another project that I was doing and And it just did, I don't know what took so long to come up with that idea to 3d print them But once I had the 3d printer, I was like, oh wait that magnet thing that I've been trying to come up with I might be able to just design this and do it my damn self!  
So I did, I tested it out, and uh, and it was kinda, 3D printed was kinda cheap feeling, and it kinda was, you know, the magnets would fall out, I had to like, compress the magnets in and stuff, and then if if somebody left it sittin in their car or whatever, it would kinda get weak and the magnet would fall out, and I was like, well I can't put that on somebody's CEO and then the magnet And the mic falls to the ground, that ain't gonna be no good.  
You know, so that's why I had, I had to get a mold injected somehow. So that's why I just went to town on that.  
Andy Leviss: like, how long of a process, like from once you decided that you needed to do a mold injected and like tried reaching out to manufacturers and then said, fuck it, I'll try to do it myself. Like how long a journey was that?  
Mark Russie: Uh, it was about six months of trying to get people to do it, trying to find places, until I finally bought a machine myself. And then another three months of battling with the machine, and all the stuff those guys said would happen was happening. The magnets were shooting out to the sides, and they were not working, they were degaussing or flipping halfway over.  
And it was just all kinds of trouble, and the molds weren't working, and they were I literally came out with bloody hands, like my hands were just scarred up and like it was, it was pretty rough for a couple months. Uh, I got to drinking pretty heavy during that time. But, uh, you know, it all worked out and now I'm all not drinking heavy and I'm back in my studio playing my guitar and making lav magnets in my little sweatshop.  
It's great.  
Andy Leviss: That's awesome. And you know, it's, that is like a care in that manufacturing that. You need for this to work and for the parts to be interchangeable that I'm surprised how many commercial products with magnets that people just like it doesn't matter to them or they don't care like I have for I've talked before about like I have started doing a little bit of like barbecue smoking on the side and the company whose, whose controller I used for it, like the little reels they make for probes are, they've got magnets on them so they can stack together and magnetize to the side of the grill.  
And they're just like random polarities that they come like, I ordered four and three out of the four stacked and one would jump off the stack. And like in the back and forth, they were like, Oh, we don't actually test for that. Um, and I don't know which ones and they literally were like,  
Mark Russie: should uh,  
Andy Leviss: We'll send you a couple.  
And I was like, how about this? Why don't you find two that are opposite and send me both of those and I'll send you back the one that doesn't match. And they're like, Oh yeah, that'll work. And it was, it was shocking. So I, yeah, it seems like that's just the thing that so many companies doing that sort of thing, just don't even bother paying attention to or worrying about.  
So  
Mark Russie: Well, they don't typically need to. And, and there's a, there's a few companies that have magnets One is out of Korea that they just recently started making them. It's called a ballsang. It's uh, it's kind of similar to what I make, but instead of a loop, it's just a little block with some lines carved in it that you take the cable of your lav and you stick it through there and you wrap it up around and it kind of holds.  
But theirs is just one magnet, and on the inside, it's a cellophane piece of steel that the magnet will stick to. They're not real strong, they're gonna fall off and stuff, but they're cheap and they're made of silicone, so you know, there's the cheap knock off. If you guys if anybody's looking  
Andy Leviss: That's always a, that's a mark that you've made it in manufacturing is when cheap knockoffs start coming through.  
Mark Russie: what I thought too. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Uh, yeah, um, uh, DPA makes a magnet as well. And there's the same kind of concept, you take your alligator clip off, and you put your, it becomes your clip, and the same thing, it goes to a piece of metal, so it's not going to be as strong, their magnet's not going to pick up a 5 pound weight, mine does, this thing is never coming off, you're not getting that thing off of there straight off, it's not going to happen, and uh, And then, um, Shure says they make one, um, but every time I go to any convention and I ask their guy at the convention, Hey, can I compare your magnets to a lav magnet?  
They never have them. And if you go online to order it, it's some long backorder situation or something. So I'm not sure if they're still even making them or if they just gave up on it or whatever, but, but again, it's the same concept. Theirs goes on to a little steel plate with the magnet on the thing in the front.  
So it's, it's a little different. Mine's magnet to magnet, so it's super, super  
Andy Leviss: Dig it. Um, so you said you've, you've like mostly retired from working gigs now and are pretty much just doing this in your music. Was that an intentional thing? Did the lav magnet pick up enough? Was that something that like kind of came out of the pandemic shutdowns or how did that happen?  
Mark Russie: Oh, that's kind of crazy, because I launched lav magnets, uh, November 1st, officially, 2019. Going into the pandemic, and everything's shut down, and that whole time I didn't do anything. I just, I've worked odd jobs with friends of mine, painting walls and doing drywall jobs and stuff for people to keep the money going.  
And, uh, and Just waited it out. It wasn't till, uh, 2022, January 2022, I decided, well, let's try to go for a relaunch of Lav Magnet and see if anybody likes it still. There's shows are going again. So I kind of just started putting it out there and putting feelers out and everybody just started. Buying them right up.  
It's really gone crazy. It's kind of nuts. Uh, I was just taking a chance though. I didn't know what I was going to do. I know I didn't want to come, I knew I didn't want to come back to shows. I didn't want to come back to pushing faders and, and being involved in the stress and the, the, and the never knowing what my schedule is going to be.  
Never knowing, you know, just the whole thing. I'll show up at this time, but we ain't going to tell you when you leave. I got tired of all that. I did that for 30 years. I'm done with that. You know, I need a break from that. I was getting stressed out. I lost all my hair. Teeth started falling out, getting old all of a sudden.  
Figured I better do something better. So luckily lav magnet's working.  
Aram Piligian: and, uh, so with something like that, you know, the lav magnet's a very niche product, uh, in, in the grand scheme of things. And I imagine a lot of the people that end up buying one, it's because they used one or saw someone else use one. And, uh, you know, have, have you, how do you lean into that like word of mouth versus like actual advertising versus, you know, and how, how do you.  
Do you really actively market at this point? Or do you pretty much like, you know what? This product stands on its own and I'm going to let the word spread from there.  
Mark Russie: Well, I tried doing some Facebook advertising and quickly realized that They're advertising to random people who would never have a use for a lav magnet. So, while the name's getting out there, it's kind of pointless. I mean, you know, it's not so much of a shotgun approach, like you said. It's a very niche kind of thing.  
Uh, surprisingly enough, they're more People than I anticipated because I was thinking just like AV, tax, audio people. Now I've got corporations hitting me up wanting to order 10 and 20 of them at a time. So, so there's just a little broader than I thought it was going to be, but I just gave up on doing that kind of advertising.  
I'm not a marketing guru. I don't know how to really do marketing. So I just let my customers be my salespeople at this point. That's all I can do. I'd love to partner with some people that know how to market and really put it out there and blow  
Andy Leviss: there's anybody out there listening, you know where to reach, which where I'm sure, I know there's some folks with marketing background out there listening that might be looking to get off of gigs themselves, so maybe we'll make a love connection happen.  
Mark Russie: That'd be  
Andy Leviss: Uh, so, and you do all your sales are direct, right?  
You know, you don't like distribute to anyone?  
Mark Russie: Everything is direct. Yep. Everything is direct through me. Yep. And I offer everything with a lifetime replacement warranty. If you break it, send it back. I replace it for free. I just send you a new one. I don't care if you even bought it. I don't care if somebody gave it to you. If you break it, send it to me.  
I'll send you a new one, like Craftsman.  
Andy Leviss: That's, I appreciate that a lot. Um, and I know it's, I feel like you hit that sweet spot of like, it's just enough, like complicated to manufacture, but it's not like you're ripping your hair out. Cause I know, I think I've mentioned on the show before, I used to have a business doing, like, Semi custom, like, QLAB controllers, like USB MIDI controllers.  
And I, like, it was one of those things I knew there was a market for it. And I feel like the market grew faster than I was ready to provide for. And it began this part where it was just it became too much to assemble them, but not enough to, like, pay somebody to streamline it better, to, like, have somebody else do them for me.  
So eventually I just ended up pulling the plug because it became too much. But it sounds like you've found that sweet spot to, like, make it work for you really well.  
Mark Russie: Uh, for now, I mean, uh, it's, heh, it's not like I'm getting a thousand orders a day, you know what I mean? It'd be different if I was started getting, you know, several hundred orders a day or something like that. It may, may be a little harder on me. I'd have to hire some people. Right now, I'm a one man operation.  
I kind of like it this way. Uh, if it does ramp up to that point, and I have to hire people, I'm Probably gonna outsource it, farm it out to a widget company. Just take my trade secrets and my patents and stuff and go to them and go, Here you go, sign off this NDA and here's how you do it. Uh, train your people how to do it and you guys just make them up for me.  
So, that may be a thing in the future. For now, I do it myself. It's  
Andy Leviss: Well, so is this, are you like you pumping them out every day or like you batch them or how, what's it, what's, what's a typical week for you?  
Mark Russie: Well, okay, so I, initially, I've, up until just about a couple months ago, I was doing them made to order, so when orders would come in, every day I'd get up and look at my orders and come in the garage and just start stamping them out and going to town and doing all the labor on it. Um, now, I've decided because it's, it's getting to be too much of a strain trying to keep up on it.  
I've decided I'm going to try to do a stock. I'm going to try to build up an inventory of about 5, 000 of them and have them just on stock and just keep replenishing my stock. So, it's uh, it's kind of growing, so I kind of got to grow with it, I guess.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's an awesome place to be and also to have the foresight to know that like you need to make that shift is, is a wise thing. That's, I know we often talk on here about like just those business choices and, and yeah, I had a thought there and I completely lost it. Oh, every damn time, every damn time, there was like a whole nother half of that sentence that I was going to that made sense and now everybody's along for the ride.  
Mark Russie: Mwahahahaha.  
Andy Leviss: Um, so, I mean, going, going back to like when you were working gigs, like any, any like highlights, any like particular, like, that was really cool and I'm glad I got that and got to check it off the list.  
Mark Russie: Uh, I mean, I was just doing it as the job. It was just a job better than, it was, better than being a glazer on a high rise. You know what I mean? , the, my whole family was telling me, you need a job as a glazer with the family kind of thing. And I was like, no, I don't wanna do that. So the highlight to me was when I finally was able to go, I don't do that anymore.  
Don't touch a glass cutter or a suction cup or any of that crap anymore. That's it. I just do sound now. And, uh, so that's pretty much was the highlight for me. I mean, I got to work a lot of really big shows. I've been, I was head sound for Miss Universe for a few years here locally. And it doesn't make me the A1.  
I was the A3 number 5 or some crap like that. We were the cable grunts, and then we had our couple few cues, you know, on stage, band carts and stuff like that, and micing up drums and that kind of stuff. Um, you know, the, I did a lot of pharmaceutical shows. I kind of opened the Four Seasons when they first opened.  
I did a lot of stuff in this town when they first opened all the ballrooms, like the Bellagio. I was the, Always in the catwalks and they're crawling around before somebody put their foot through the ceiling and they said, no more people in the catwalks. Uh, I've seen a lot of crazy stuff. I've been yelled at a lot by people when I was new and didn't realize what I was doing.  
Like, one, one thing that stands out was at the Four Seasons. Um, I was still pretty new at the operating shows. You know, finally getting a chance to get in there and get my, my hands wet on actually working with people and mic'ing people up and stuff. I went to put an alligator clip on a guy's tie and he literally just shat a brick right in front of me.  
This is an 800 tie! How dare you try to put that! Alligator clip on this, oh my, and I learned right then, like, you gotta be careful with some of these people, you might want to ask before you go, especially when I first saw the vampire clips, I'm like, don't ever use that on anybody, for any, you're gonna put a couple holes in that lady's 2, 000 blouse, ha ha, I wouldn't recommend it, ha ha ha, so I got to see a lot of weird stuff like that, I've seen, uh, One of my favorite things, um, was on one of the bigger shows, I won't mention any names of any shows, but we did a, um, we did a, um, lip synced DJ, so they had to set up a DJ out in, out towards, out by front of house kinda, and then we'd build, they'd put a little riser out there, and we'd set up a little DJ rig and a drum set out there, and they said no power to it, and I said, well why no power, how are we getting What's the DJ gonna do?  
Well, the DJ is not actually gonna be live, but mic the drums. So, yeah, all right, so where's the audio coming from? The audio is gonna come from the, from the front of house guy or the truck guy, I wasn't sure which guy was sending it, but somebody was piping the audio back to the drummer in his Foldback, and he was playing along to what was there, and the DJ pretended to DJ.  
It was pretty insane. It was just my, my head, I couldn't wrap my head around why they would do something like that. Uh, and then later I found out that it was because the, uh, the guy that was pretending to be a DJ was a production assistant. That the producers liked the look of. They liked the way he looked, they liked his, his personality, he was very upbeat and stuff, and they said, we need somebody like that in the crowd to pump things up.  
So we're gonna put him out there with the drummer, and that's gonna pump up the crowd. You know, I mean, hey, I don't build shows, I just go out there and mic  
Andy Leviss: just make them  
Mark Russie: up and push faders. Yeah, exactly. Pretty fun little  
Andy Leviss: I don't know that I've ever, I've ever done a mime DJ before, but it, it does make sense. And that's, I mean, that's the market we're in is, yeah, it's about the look and the vibe so many times.  
Mark Russie: Yeah, yeah, it really is. It's pretty crazy. I've had, uh, I've had acts where they had to have auto tune in their in ears even though they were lip syncing. Which was, just seemed nuts to me, but in order for them to be able to pull off the lip syncing thing and look like they're really doing it, they really sang to the song, right?  
And they wanted to hear what it really sounded like in their ear with the autotune. Otherwise, it would throw them off. They wouldn't be able to do it. It's pretty wild. Heh  
Andy Leviss: It's like, I'm, I'm trying to remember the name of the, like, it was like a hundred years ago, it was the The famous or infamous, uh, socialite who fancied herself a, a fantastic opera singer and was like so incredibly tone deaf that it became a thing to go watch her because she thought she was putting on these amazing performances, but it was just like  
Mark Russie: Oh, wow. Heh  
Andy Leviss: I, the, the, the play Souvenir is based in her life and there, there was a movie with one of the guys from the rock from the, I don't know, from, um, uh, Big Bang Theory was in it and I'm blanking on her name Florence something.  
And Florence Foster Jenkins, that's what it was, which is a reference I never thought I'd make in an episode about lav magnets, but here we are, it's a journey  
Mark Russie: Here we are. Welcome to my world. Heh heh. It's pretty crazy, man, I  
Andy Leviss: Well, it's funny, like Mark keeps mentioning the Four Seasons and as Small World goes, I was telling him before the show, I'm gonna be in Vegas next week for a small job at the Four Seasons. So, uh, we'll be there and I will,  
Mark Russie: heh. We'll have to hook up for a  
Andy Leviss: I'll, I'll, I'll have a little bit of downtime the day before the gig and I, I will definitely, and I definitely will have some lav magnets in my suitcase for, for my job.  
Mark Russie: Well, I'll have a couple of colored ones maybe for you. You want a blue one or a red one? They're kind of marbled.  
Andy Leviss: No, I'd love to check them out.  
Mark Russie: Alright, I'll definitely bring you one of those. And you know, I made them now, um, I've upgraded them so the loop is metal now instead of plastic. So I'll bring you some  
Andy Leviss: We'll check them out and I'll.  
Mark Russie: so that you got the metal loop. And I made it actually a little bit taller, so there's a little bit more space in there. For the newer, um, the newer alligator clips that have the rubber cable management on the foot of it.  
So that the rubber cable management will fit underneath the loop now. Yeah, so a few upgrades.  
Aram Piligian: So. Aside from making, you know, it's easy enough to, well, relatively easy to make some of these, uh, performers and speakers comfortable, but what are your, like, on a show creature comforts backstage? What's your, you know, your ergonomics, your stuff that you gotta have right around, not necessarily work things, but you know, some spend a long time in the back and in the dark, and I know everyone has their own little setup that they, uh, love to roll out.  
Mark Russie: I'm a weirdo, man. I didn't have any of that stuff. I'd set up my RF world and sit in the middle of it all.  
Andy Leviss: Back in your cave.  
Aram Piligian: Rock on.  
Mark Russie: Yeah, I'm in my cave wherever I belong. I did a lot of front of house stuff for a long time, and I just got so tired of being in the hot seat. Like, anything goes wrong, it's, it's your fault, you know, kind of thing. Uh, that, freakin that robotic light ain't workin What's wrong with you, sound guy? Uh, I don't know, dude, what did I do?  
I just got tired of that, and, and always having to face the heat from the PMs and stuff like that. So, I kinda just started A2ing, and, and actually, toward the end there Uh, I was doing more RF coordinating gigs than anything, because, you know, the creepy RF guy, leave him alone in the corner, was great for me, I loved that.  
Ha ha ha ha ha! Don't talk to him, you might mess up the frequencies! Ha ha ha ha ha! It's always so voodoo and scary to everybody, you know what I mean? It was never really scary to me. I jumped right on that stuff. Loved it. Uh, and then I started being a union steward was kind of the last thing I  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, so what,  
Aram Piligian: what was that like?  
Mark Russie: Uh, it was, I don't know, it was strange being kind of in between labor and management kind of thing. You know, cause management's always trying to get away with this or that. Labor's always trying to cry about this or that or get away with this or that and you're the guy in the middle going hold on, here's what the contract says, you know, but in doing that I knew that I'd be fighting a lot of the, um, arguing with a lot of the people that I typically were working for.  
Before that, so I knew there was kind of gonna be a, you know, foot shot for my audio career. Like, oh, that's the guy that was just making me pay all these guys the higher rate because we thought we were gonna get away with something and didn't. And now I'm the Jerk out there in the field. So I kind of knew I was leaning towards my retirement by the time I started stewarding.  
Aram Piligian: So did you find there was anything that kind of helped you blunt that? I have to be a jerk right now moment or, you know, to help you kind of get that confidence in the moment to be the quote unquote jerk, uh, you know, and said lovingly because you have the best interests of a variety of people at hand, but, you know, how do you, how do you approach those situations?  
Mark Russie: the contract in hand. Everything, I'm sorry guys, I stick to whatever the contract is. I didn't make the rules. We all agreed. It's called a collective bargaining agreement. Meaning, collectively, we all agreed on this. So, it is what it is. And that really is the best way to go out there, when it comes to the, you know, the union shows and the union contract stuff.  
I've done a lot of, on production side, where it's a lot of give and take. You know, when you're freelancing, it isn't Here's the contract and we have to go by it. When you're freelancing, you got to kind of work with the show, right? It's a little different. So having those contracts in hand kept me confident enough to go, all right.  
I'm just not me being a, I'm not being a dick here. I'm just what the rules are, the rules.  
Aram Piligian: Yeah, for  
Andy Leviss: so and, and was that like something you found, like did somebody ask you if you were interested in, in starting to work on that side or was that a decision you made and pursued?  
Mark Russie: I kind of just fell into it. It just was a natural course of things. One of the BAs asked me if I wanted to do it. I'd already been a working steward quite a bit. So, meaning that there wasn't enough people to have an admin steward out there. So, somebody who's working today is going to have to play steward.  
But, uh, never really just as an admin steward until they kind of came to me and said, Hey, why don't you step up and go out there and You know, do good for your brothers now. So, I had to, I guess. It's the honorable thing to  
Andy Leviss: got the call and you  
Mark Russie: right thing to do. Yeah, it's the right thing.  
Andy Leviss: That's, and how long were you doing that?  
Mark Russie: Oh, jeez. I think I did that admin steward for about 7 or 8 years. Something like that. Working Steward, I'd started, they'd put me on that list as soon as I became A list, which was in, I think, 2000, 2001, something like that. And then I started getting the, in my little dispatch it would say, Working Steward, and I never really knew what that meant until one day I talked to a PA and they were like, That means you're the steward out there, dude.  
Like, oh. Maybe a little training might help. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. So they gave me some classes and trained me up and taught me about the contracts and stuff before they sent me out to Be a, what they call a non working steward. I don't like to call it that, because you're working. There's plenty of work, believe me.  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, well, and it gets important, like it's easy to like feed into the that's the stereotype of like, oh, there's that extra union guy just sitting around not doing anything, you know, chewing on his pencil and tapping his clipboard. But when a job gets to a certain size, you need somebody who can. Deal with those, deal with any situations that come up and keep it from escalating.  
Mark Russie: And wrangle the cats.  
Aram Piligian: you noticed the difference in the, uh, you know, the kinds of people joining and becoming a part of, you know, the local, uh, throughout your career?  
Mark Russie: Absolutely. We had closed books throughout the 90s, so it was really, you didn't get in unless you were like friends or family. Uh, in the 2000s they started opening the books, now they're actively recruiting it seems like. I don't know, I haven't, I haven't taken a call in three years, so I'm really not that involved.  
I'm still a member, I still go to the meetings and stuff, but uh, but I don't think um, I don't think the books are closed anymore. I think they still accept applications. In fact, last year there was like an online hiring portal that they put up for people and they were kind of advertising that. So I think they're actively seeking more people and more diverse people, people who, you know, younger generation, the next generation.  
Kind of thing coming in. You gotta, gotta pass the torch somewhere. You can't hold on to it  
Andy Leviss: yeah, I was,  
Mark Russie: you know. So just start teaching the new kids coming in, like, cut their teeth for them.  
Andy Leviss: well I was gonna ask and I don't know if since you did kind of pivot into more of your manufacturing side over the pandemic, but I don't know if you can speak to this, but I know here in New York, like, there's been a huge shift where there were lots of folks who, after the pandemic, just decided, you know what, I'm done, I'm not coming back, and or folks who were going to come in and decided not to, and there's been a big shift in both number of good people working and the type and nature of the folks who are.  
Has like, has Vegas had that same kind of shift that you've noticed?  
Mark Russie: Yeah, a lot of the, a lot of the older group, you know, guys in the 50s and stuff have kind of just backed out. I mean, I still see a lot of the, my old friends out there working, you know, but just not as much. So there's a lot of these younger people coming in and they're eager. They're eager to learn. They are ready to do it.  
I don't care what anybody says about the new generation, the next generation being like lazy and stuff. Not to my experience. I haven't experienced that out there. When I seen them, just when I was out there in the field and I see the newer kids come in, some of them are lazy, but there's some of them lazy in our generation and the generation before us.  
There's always gonna be slouches out there. You know, you can't Put it all in the hole, cause there's a few slouches that's everybody's a slouch, you know? I've found they're eager and ready to go and they're buying lav magnets so I love them. Hahahaha!  
Andy Leviss: time. Like, what advice do you have for me, aside from number one being buy a pile of lav magnets, what's the next bit of advice you'd give somebody coming into the industry today?  
Yeah, and it,  
Mark Russie: Mouth closed, eyes and ears open. That's the key right there. Don't think you know it all. Don't come in talking like, Oh, I went to school and I'm the world's greatest audio guy. You don't know what you're going to run into out there. You walk into a ballroom, they're gonna hand you a pile of gear and tell you, good luck sir, and you better figure it out, or the PM's gonna be screaming at you the whole way out the door, and there goes your career, because you don't know how to, you know, maybe listen to some people that were around before telling you, hey, when it comes to this or that, do it this way or that way, and, uh, and be polite.  
Just be polite out there in the corporate world. You got to be polite. You know, I don't know about the rock and roll world Maybe there you can be a little more rough edge. I've got some friends that tour rock and roll So they're they're a little rough edge. But in this corporate world, man, you got to clean up and be polite Don't show up looking like a bum because they would chase you out of there  
Aram Piligian: That's right. So was there any, you know, you say, uh, looking towards, you know, the younger people having someone as an example, was there anyone within that realm? that you really looked to as an example of the, you know, the kind of audio person you wanted to be or just the kind of plain old person that you wanted to be.  
Especially, you know, audio wasn't something that you really had too early on in youth, so I imagine there were some people that you found along the way.  
Mark Russie: Um, I mean I've had like what as far as audio goes, I don't think so Not too many people I've I've had a few guys along the way that That, uh, I guess kind of helped me decide who, who I want to look up to. I just always been kind of a figure it out as I go kind of guy, you know, not really, I mean, I listen to everybody.  
I try to take in advice and try to listen to everything that they try to give me. Uh, I had one guy with a Freeman AV, his name was Winn. Uh, he was really cool and was willing to dole out information any, anytime I ask him, like, cause he had a master's degree in audio and all that stuff, so anytime I had any questions I could call him and he wouldn't make me feel like an idiot.  
For calling and asking questions about it, and he was really, really fast to start sharing the knowledge, like, here's why this is what it is. So I'm actually learning something and not just being told, just do that and that's what it is, kind of thing.  
Aram Piligian: That's such a huge thing, because that attitude leaves such a good impression on people that are learning, because the opposite of that is such a turn off, you know, when you're faced with someone that just is, doesn't want to give you the time of day, it makes your motivation to actually do a good job just sink like a rock.  
Mark Russie: right, right, makes you not even want to be there.  
Andy Leviss: and it pays it forward so many different ways because it both, when you teach somebody else, it makes. Yeah. It easier for them to help you. It also makes them learn that it's okay to teach and share for the next person. And it just it's, there's nothing to be lost by being the nice guy or taking that extra second or even if you're if you're in the heat and you I've like I've said to people and I've had people say to me, Hey, I can't explain now just do it this way.  
But as soon as this section is over, come back and I'll explain.  
Mark Russie: But one guy, Really cut my teeth with in like, like, showroom audio stuff was a guy named Dave Tordy over at the, over at the Circus Maximus showroom in Caesars Palace back in the 90s. And he actually, I was on carpenter calls a lot and he kind of gave me a chance, like, kid says he wants to do audio, and he kind of let me come out and help build shows and mic bands and build band carts and stuff.  
And so that kind of, I kind of looked up to him a lot. He was very educated. He's, I think he still works over there at the, the, uh, what do they call it? The Coliseum. I think he's still the guy over there. I haven't seen him in a while, but he, uh, he, he was a good one to look up to. Because he had very organized skills and he was really good with the clients and with the, the Talent and the showroom management.  
He had a good rapport with them and all the guys he always had a good rapport with and, uh, you know, he was a good one to look up to. Another guy I'd learned quite a bit from on, uh, mixing bands live was a guy named, uh, Russell Schmidt. I don't know. Uh, his brother's name was Al Schmidt, had a bunch of platinum records and stuff like that. Um, he was good to work with. I worked with him at the Stardust for quite a while. Mixin like, like, uh, ballroom bands for slot parties and stuff, so. I learned quite a bit standin there next to him, like. He was like, here, you just mix it. I'm like, uh, I don't really, I'm not, I'm not a mixing guy for a band here.  
Hold on a second.  
Andy Leviss: Just keep  
Mark Russie: And that was before, that was before, right, that was before digital boards. So it was like, damn, it's a lot of knobs. Which faders where? Oh my God. So that was a lot of fun. I liked working with him a lot. You know, like I said, over the years, I've just had, there's been so many people that I've worked with that I just tried to keep my ears open to everybody that was around, and I mean, I guess those guys kind of stand out for me.  
Andy Leviss: Well, and I want to, I want to flag that thing you just said too for folks, like, that there's so many people you can learn from and just, if you always keep your eyes and ears and open for where and when you can learn stuff, you'll be surprised where, like, I've picked up cool tricks for where to place a mic from an executive who has somebody else show them something on a gig, and they're like, oh, the guy last week did this, or the girl last week did this.  
Do you mind if we try it? And that's how I mic people up for the rest of eternity, because it works.  
Mark Russie: Wow, you're right, you just never know, keeping your ears open. Oh wow, look at that, it works.  
Andy Leviss: Cool. Well, I mean, we're getting around time to wrap up. I think unless Aram, did you have any anything else you want to ask Mark about?  
Aram Piligian: Uh, I want to know about your guitar playing, cause I can tell that you really enjoy doing it. And, uh, you know, I can see that you're into some of the composing side of things. And so what, what are you getting into on the guitar side of life or just the music side of life in general?  
Mark Russie: I took about, funny story, I've taken about the last six months off from really playing. I put my guitar, other than doing just like exercises and stuff, from really, I'm trying to clear my head of stuff and start with a fresh Perspective before I start digging in and really recording new music.  
I kind of ran into a wall last year. I started thinking I was going to learn to play drums.  
Aram Piligian: That's how, you know,  
Mark Russie: It was a bad  
Andy Leviss: Yeah, when the guitar player says, you know, what would be cool?  
Mark Russie: I did that for a few months, just racking my head in here, like, hours on end, trying to play the rudiments and all the different. And one night I got really I'm frustrated and kicked the drums over and said, you know, that's it. I got to set this back up in the corner. Let me just take a break and I'll come back around.  
So this last couple of weeks I've been kind of working on some new ideas and throwing some stuff around. So I'm just kind of started getting back into it. Um, you know, before that I was playing. Eight, ten hours a day. That's all I did. Uh, work, make lav magnets, play guitar all night. Kind of insane, actually.  
I was driving my wife nuts.  
Andy Leviss: I was gonna say, how did you feel about the the diversion into drums?  
Mark Russie: She did not like that. Well, she, she plays bass a little bit and she's actually the singer in the, our band Leathermouse that we've had for, gosh, 20 years now. Or more. Um, and uh, she started playing bass simply because we couldn't find any bass players. And so I bought a bass and said, I know you're missing digits on your left hand, but we're going to learn to play bass different than everybody else.  
And you're going to be playing bass.  
Aram Piligian: Right  
Mark Russie: sure enough, we're out gigging all over the place while they're playing bass. But we haven't done that in a minute either. We're just, you know, family  
Andy Leviss: That's awesome. I get I give I give power to bass players who can sing because that's like this always feel to me to very cut like the the rhythms and the vibes and the notes are so different that like, that's like is one of the things that impresses me most about like Sting is like the bass lines he's playing while singing or like I'm like, how are you doing that at once?  
Mark Russie: Insane. It's just insane. It blows my mind completely how they do that. Yes, indeed. Yeah, so I mean I got my guitar. You want to hear some stuff? I don't know how good that'll  
Andy Leviss: do it. Why not?  
Mark Russie: uh I mean, I always have a, I always have a guitar standing by.  
Andy Leviss: I don't know if we've ever had a musical performance outside of the one live episode. I'm digging it.  
Mark Russie: So I got a little loop pedal built onto my, my effects thing here, so I can loop a little bit of a...I get a little loop going on there, and I can kind of play along to that.  
GUITAR MUSIC

Andy Leviss: You know, with apologies to Mike Green, I think for this one episode, we're going to take a little twist and let Mark play us out. So thanks, Mark, for joining us. It's been awesome hearing the story behind a tool I literally use almost every gig. Thanks, Aram, for jumping in and keeping Sean's seat warm for him!  
Aram Piligian: Yeah. My pleasure.  
Andy Leviss: It's been great having you and love to have you back anytime. 

Aram Piligian: Yeah!

Andy Leviss: And thanks as always to our listeners and to our sponsors, Allen & Heath and RCF. We'll be here next time and hope you will be too. Thanks.

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