Reply by Ivan
Here it is in simple form.
What causing ringing is too much level for too long. Except for extremely large single events, a short term loud event will not do much damage or cause your ears to ring. Yes that is another debatable topic-but I am talking “normal loud” events-whatever those are.
Just like power capacity of loudspeakers, it is energy and time together. One or the other (unless greatly excessive) will not damage the loudspeaker-but put them together and you have the possibility of damage.
So lets look at a the level of a snare drum hit over say 100ms or so.
If you have one source of sound the total energy (LEQ) over a time period is short.
But if you have multiple arrivals over that same time period, the total energy your ear is exposed to is greater over the same time (the level is not louder-but the time is longer-even if the extra arrivals are slightly lower in level). I am talking TOTAL energy exposure during a time period.
So when you put a full band into the “mix,” your ears are exposed to more sound “events” during the same time period.
What “brought this thought” on was several things/events.
Often I hear people say that they could believe their ears are not ringing after such a loud event at quite a few shows I have been a part of.
At one large show I did, during sound check, one of the stage hands was standing back at FOH and said “I can’t believe how loud it is, and you can still talk. You can’t do that with a “rider accepted brand” system.”
Think about what causes hearing damage. Your ears have little “hairs” in the fluid and the more those hairs get laid down (due to level), the sooner damage occurs. Just like running over grass with a car. If you do it multiple times, it takes longer for the grass to come back. But one pass is not so bad.
This is a very simplistic explanation, but I believe it has some merit.
Just as the multiple arrivals “slur” the impact, due to your hearing the same sound multiple times (not as an echo but rather simple stretched out over several milliseconds), that “total energy” puts more stress on your hearing-ie the ringing.
I could be completely wrong, and have no factual basis for this (yet)-simply an idea/thought as a way to explain why your ears “seem” to ring after listening to some types of systems vs others.
As with everything in nature, one source (arrival) of sound is always best/more natural.
I am sure this will cause some controversy, and that is fine. I am just “voicing my opinion/thought.”
Reply by Scott
I suspect you’re right. But there’s a problem. Distortion and multiple arrival times are part of the sound of an exciting rock show.
Reply by Stu
Sure sounds like line array “issues” and more.
Reply by Ivan
The idea follows with any array in which you hear more than one arrival of a sound.
This is also from a single cabinet, in which certain freq are reproduced by multiple drivers, whose spacing from the listening ear are different.
People often “think” they are listening to a single cabinet. But just turn off the one you “think” you are listening to, and how much energy is coming for the cabinets “you are out of the pattern of.” It can/should become quite disturbing.
While you “should” be out of the pattern (based on the rated pattern), you STILL get lots of energy. So you are not “out” as much as you would like to think.
That simple test should start to raise questions, for which you seek answers.
Or else you just don’t care.———
I often ask myself WHY is that happening. This leads to a better understanding.
Reply by Roland
Though this is a “can of worms,” debate it should be remembered that comb filtering exists in the real world and we use it to good effect in the sound of every record made.
Arguably we can use a simple microphone technique (perhaps even mono), to capture a musical event to “improve fidelity,” however, it might not be as exciting or immediate to the listener as a multimiked, eq’d and effected version. This does lead us to an interesting prospect of being in an acoustic space where the interaction could, potentially, enhance the listening experience or not be as damaging as another, perhaps more technically correct space.
I try to never pre-judge rooms as I’ve done sound in rooms which I though we’re going to be troublesome and had very good results and other rooms that on the surface looked potentially great, but were very difficult.
As You often say Ivan, it depends. Personally I quite like open outdoor events, but even these can have problems. Imperfect solutions to imperfect situations.
Reply by Lee
Yes and no. (By the way, I don’t see any of this as debate, just informational.)
A room that has reflections which cause comb-filtering problems can certainly be a challenge but we have no control over the room unless we designed it. Purposefully employing effects in a recording is a choice to change the sound.
In a PA system from the output processing/DSP through the amplifiers and the speakers we are attempting to re-produce sound accurately with the acoustical output being faithful and accurate to the electronic input. If effects or coloration of the sound should be required this is the function of Mic and Mic placement choices, effects units or plugins, overdriving pre-amps, etc. It is not a wanted or desireable function of the speakers themselves.
I think that it is also important to point out that comb-filtering cannot add, it only takes away. It creates nulls that can be easily 60-80 dB in depth or more. These are all on octave centers related to the distance offset and the frequency. This gets really interesting to consider when you look at complex musical waveforms.
Reply by Keith
“Imperfect solutions to imperfect situations.” I think this sums it up quite nicely.
Understanding as much as possible about those imperfections allows us to arrive at the best possible “imperfect solution” to the problems.
It’s always a compromise, but one should try to be well informed as to what those compromises are.
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