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Reply posted by littmuze
If I were your mastering guy, after questioning the amount of buss
compression you used, I would then understand & respect that
you like the effect. I would just clear up the murky low mids to
get some clarity between the toms & bass, & open the top
up so that banjo can come out more.
Keep in mind I'm listening with my computer speakers & not my
studio monitors. So based on that... That’s my $0.02
Ed
www.EdLittmanMastering.com
Reply posted by mastertrev
I think the mastering guy should shut the f*ck up about the compression
and master the song. One of my standard questions to the client
is "how is everyone feeling about the mixes sonically speaking"
- obviously if the mix engineer is not even in the room the client
will (hopefully) be completely candid about where things are sitting
for them. If I was hearing a lot of compression on the mix but the
client was cool with it I probably wouldn't even bring the issue
up - particularly since these are mixes they approved and are happy
with.
And then there is of course the politics of the situation - as a
mastering guy you risk damaging your relationship with an engineer/producer
by making comments on mixes which everyone else has signed off on.
In this case you did not send the project to this mastering engineer
(the band did) but as a mastering engineer I would still be looking
to hopefully get a positive vibe going with you so that in the future
a working relationship could possibly be established.
Possibly this guy feels the need to critique the mix so that he
can justify his own existence just a little bit more... I know that
if I started whining that a mix was over compressed to a lot of
my clients about the only answer I would get would be a reel of
1/2" upside my head and the sound of the door slamming as they
go see my competitor down the street....
trevor sadler
mastermind
milwaukee, wi., usa
Reply posted by bblackwood
Oh you have got to be kidding me!!! I DL'd the files and listened
to both of them - their freakin' fine. What was this guy thinking?
Not saying they are perfect, not saying they couldn't be improved
in mastering, but over-compressed? No way. Kinda catchy, too. Good
job, AJ.
Brad Blackwood
Mastering Engineer
www.ardentstudios.com
Reply posted by jack1bear
If those files are over-compressed then I'm a horse's ass...hang
on...I've been called one of those....many times ;-) Seriously they
are fine. Some judicious mastering will bring them to a nice level
of sonic satisfaction.
Trev has a similar philosophy to me. I always ask the client where
they feel their mixes could be improved. Kinda like a wishlist.
We ALWAYS I repeat ALWAYS discuss the loudness thing. More often
than not my clients (especially new ones) raise it first. It's a
tricky one discussing others mixes. Politics has a bad habit of
rearing it's ugly head. One man's beat is another man's noise.
Hey Trev if you ever get a 1/2" reel coming towards you sweep
the client's legs by using the inside of your foot just above the
ankle. Once they've lost their balance a nice open hand slap across
their chops should humiliate them. Smashing them with a 1/2"
reel across the ear as a follow up is optional, but if you really
really dislike them NOTHING works better than the good ol' ground
and pound!!! ;-)
All joking aside, Trev raises a good point when it comes our commenting
on mixes that the client has signed off on. Brad also makes an excellent
point that we as glorified tape copy boys help facilitate the process
of helping the client realise THEIR vision. Sure we are there to
provide some objective input, but we must tread fairly carefully,
especially with those clients who are definitely sure in what they
want and have enough experience to know.
Have a talk to the ME in question and tell him what you want. If
he insists on wanting to put his mark on it, you can always send
it elsewhere. A great room, monitoring signal chain and ears are
all imperatives in this competitive market, but without tremendous
people skills, you are guaranteeing yourself a very short career.
Tony Mantz.
JACK THE BEAR MASTERING
Melbourne, Australia.
Reply posted by alphajerk
Good, I thought I was starting to second guess myself because I
intentionally laid back on the compression because a lot of times
I will slam the piss out of it.... Of course it’s a lot of
loud rock and roll and this isn’t.
Reply posted by snaggle
I know I’m still a newbie really, but damn that does sound
great. Reminds me of Paul Westerberg meets Tom Waits. Not overly
compressed at all.
Reply posted by ronnie:
I downloaded the first song, it sounded OK to me, going by my ears,
but I loaded into my waveform editor and the waveform looks pretty
hot for further processing. I'm running some dupes now and had some
time to play with it. I analyzed it and I think that I may know
where the ME is coming from. Don't know if the column format will
hold, but the first numbers are Left side, second are Right side.
Here's the stats:
Alphajerk's Mix 01
Using RMS Window of 50 ms
Left -Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 01 dB .01 dB
Possibly Clipped: 68 20
DC Offset: -.136 -.103
Minimum RMS Power: -17.75 dB -22.46 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -1.18 dB -2.05 dB
Average RMS Power: 7.58 dB -8.62 dB
Total RMS Power -7.33 dB -8.35 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits
Peak to average is -7.58dB Left and -8.62dB, some ME's are going
to say that this is a bit too compressed. Clipped samples are 68
Left and 20 Right. Any further compression or limiting at this stage
will likely compromise radioplay.
I doubled the bit rate to 32 bit, ran it through two passes of my
compander, my algorithm settings and brought back 6dB's of the dynamic
range with only 1 clipped sample on the Left and 4 on the right.
To me it sounds better with some of the dynamic range restored.
I also brought the peak amplitude down a bit, from -.01 to -.21
and -.27. You'll not have to worry about ripple on older cd players
if you can get the peak amplitude down to around .3dB. The difference
between -.01 and -.3 is very minor and is a good safety factor after
the cd's are replicated.
Uncompression Algorithms 2 passes
Left - Right
Min Sample Value: -32052.48 -33768.22
Max Sample Value: 33560.5 31231.49
Peak Amplitude: .21 dB .27 dB
Possibly Clipped: 4 1
DC Offset -.072 -.054
Minimum RMS Power: -60.28 d -63.13 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -5.16 dB -6.38 dB
Average RMS Power:-13.27 dB -14.27 dB
Total RMS Power: -12.63 dB -13.6 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 32 Bits 32 Bits
As you can now see the RMS average has been expanded to -13.27 Left
and -14.27 Right. This does not alter the balance that you have
between left and right sides, it's still 1dB different, even though
dynamic range has been restored.
I looked at the peak to average ratio while listening in real time,
to the original, using
-140dBFS meters and didn't notice the bounce's that you did, the
levels were pretty hot. I than switched to a -60dBFS meter and watched
as the whole song played. Most of the energy stays between -5dB
and -0dB, still very little bounce, again some ME's are going to
call this very compressed. Do I think that it's hypercompressed?No
I don't, the levels on this tune stay fairly constant and the tune
can be this hot due to the instrumentation and genre.
However, if the ME is going to do any additive eq'ing or L2'ing,
IMHO, he'll be able to do a better job without the 2 buss compression
that is already applied. I suggest that if all you want is top and
tailing and the client is happy, to do it yourself. BTW, when I
expanded the original version, it lowered the talking that is at
the end of the song to inaudible. Noise floor went down without
compromising the material. I disgree with the poster that said to
alter the bass and drums, I think that the mix is fine on my system,
but the ME may have a legitimate gripe, if he's thinking of his
processing and not going by what all of our ears hear as being ok.
Brad, Tony and Trev, are you guys judging this tune by how hot it
should sound when it leaves your studio, or are you saying that
it's ok, before you process?
I would not send this mix back, but I would tell the mix engineer
that I can work better with more dynamic range left intact and that
he would be better off applying any compression on the individual
tracks and not the two buss. We are all different, we all hear differently,
we all work differently, the end result is what is important, these
are my thoughts for the way that I work, in my particular environment.
_________________
Ronny Morris
Digitak Mastering
RoMo Recording Studios
Brunswick, GA USA
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