Posted by Steve Bradbury on May 15, 2002

Loud or loudness is attribute of auditory sensation produced by a sound and although it is mainly a function of sound pressure, you can’t just measure it with a SPL meter. One way of measuring it is to compare a sound with some standard sound. Loudness levels are measured in phons and these are the units used in the Fletcher Munson curves.

Although the loudness levels are useful they are still expressed as a decibel so it is difficult to express how much louder one sound is to another (twice as loud, three times etc.). For this the unit of the sone is used. By definition a pure tone of 1 KHz 40dBs above a listeners threshold is 1 sone. 2 sones would be perceived as twice as loud.

It has been determined that above 1 sone an increase in level of about 10 dBs corresponds to a doubling in loudness. Below 1 sone a 10dB change corresponds to a threefold change in level and close to the threshold a 10dB change can give perceived changes of up to 20 times.

I think that the important thing to remember is that loudness is a human perception. The figures quoted above were determined by experiment and other experiments have produced slightly different results. Even considering just a single person, different moods, degrees of tiredness and environmental situations can affect what he or she considers too loud.

If you don’t like the music it is more likely to sound louder. One study I read suggested that a person in direct control of the volume was likely to perceive the loudness as being less than those not in control. It may be that it is not just because the sound guy is deaf that he is the only one who doesn’t think that it is too loud.

Steve.

Posted by Mike Russell on May 14, 2002

A neon yellow VW bug is loud. Rob Zombie with the new Martin W8L rig is loud. My mother when she would scream at me as a kid was loud. The generator engine on the tour bus is loud.

But with joking aside. It really depends on the gig and judging what is reasonable and not uncomfortable to the audience for the circumstances. You may also suffer from stage volume being too loud and there you lose the battle with controling the over all volume. For me at a club gig, 110 A weighted is too much for me these days. I don't mind it as much if the mix is smooth and well rounded.

Mike Russell

Posted by Joe Dawson on May 15, 2002

Rob Zombie is ALWAYS loud, no matter the system. For I'm not talking about club gigs, but about mid-size (1000-2000), I think 110 at a rock / hard rock concert are adequate. I also wouldn't mix a club on 110. 95-100 would do better, I think...

Greetings from the other side,

JD

Posted by Craig Maxwell on May 15, 2002

Rob Zombie with the new Martin W8L rig is loud.

Mike, have you heard the W8L? Is it as good as the rest of the Martin stuff?

Posted by Mike Russell on May 15, 2002

- “Rob Zombie with the new Martin W8L rig is loud.” -

Mike, have you heard the W8L? Is it as good as the rest of the Martin stuff?

Yeah I went up to St Louis for a listen when Zombie was there. It was plenty loud and coverage on the highs were VERY even. Bob Horner was there as well and we both agreed that it lacked the mids (hard to belive with Martin) but my guess is it was the mix or tuning and not the cabinet.

Low mid section kicked arse but they were using the old Martin dual 18's on subs which sounded mushy to me. Every now and then I could hear some distortion on the peaks but I believe the rig was under powered by what Rob Hofkamp had told me (crest 7001's and 8001's but don't know exactly how many) and the distortion was really clipping on the peaks. I'd like to listen to the rig with something other than metal through it. It would be great to hear somthing a little more musical like DMB through it.

Mike Russell

Posted by Mark A. Humphrey on May 14, 2002

If your addressing volume complaints, Here's my observations.

People who say "It's TOO LOUD!!! need to learn how to complain better, in order to help us out. What is "TOO LOUD!!"? Loud can be two Peaveys on a stick, overpowered and distorting at 96DB.

It can be a larger pA running smoothly at 96DB with too much 2-2.5k. I've gotten away with MURDER volumewise by cutting this/these freqs. There is alot of percieved loudness in that area of EQ.

Low end is also an issue, often the culprit. When the cops show up and say the neighbors are complaining because of the volume, it's the 'BOOM BOOM BOOM' of the subs that gets you in trouble.

There is also alot of percieved volume in powerful low end. Just think about those cars that drive through your hood at 11:00 PM. You can't hear the song playing, it's the BOOM BOOM BOOM.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Mark