Reply posted by Bob Cap on December 16, 2000

First off let me say that I always go with my gut feeling. That feeling means I'm hungry and I like to eat. Hence, I like to be paid for the work I do.

If I have a client that wants me to bill them for services rendered, I have them fill out an application for credit and I pay to have the credit check run. The same thing happens when we want to buy gear on credit. Credit checks are a normal part of doing business and are factored into our charges.

If they are a promoter, band, etc, there is no such thing as a dead beat in my area. The word is deposit and final payment when we arrive. Deposits can be in check form if there is enough time to clear the bank before the gig. Balance in CASH only. (Certified and Bank checks can have payment stopped.)

Same thing with rental gear. Credit check first. Or large cash only deposit. I'd rather lose the rantal than lose the gear. I've had people come in to rent gear that I didn't feel good about. Deposit covers cost of gear, final.

Trusted people can be just that until something happens and you're left holding the bag.

If your friends help you, you're the person that assumes the liability, period. If somebody gets hurt while "helping" you you're the "employer".

CYA, liability insurance is really cheep when compaired to a lawsuit. Of course my uncle Bruno used to say, "If I got nuttin to lose, they can't get blood from a turnip."

If I can help let me know.

Bob cap


Reply posted by Chris Kathman on December 16, 2000

I mixed a show for the Hell's Angels once in S.F., and the person taking money at the door (it was a benefit) left without understanding that the club did not pay the sound company. The head of the chapter listened to me, and promised to show up the next day, and did, on his bike, blowing the minds of my co-workers at the shop, when he roared up and walked in wearing his colors, and gave them the dough, in a brown paper bag. Oh yeah, your question!

One small piece of advice - don't make threats, make promises. And carry them through. If you say the gear doesn't roll off the truck until cash is in hand, then it is important that the gear not roll off the truck. Irresponsible promoters may really love music, but field production people have enough to do without having to spank them. But, it's part of the game.

A friend of mine held up two concerts a year apart for one of the biggest rock stars in the world, when the artist’s manager did not come across with the contracted balance in cash. The first time, when the artist found out that his management was dicking around the sound co., he was furious, and ordered them to pay the bill so he could play his show. The second time, he went BALLISTIC on his manager.

Gigs that I do as a designer/mixer, I make the client pay half of my bill, and the sound co.'s, up front.

I read a funny quote once by a guy who was the agent for novelist William Burroughs. Someone stiffed them for the fee for a reading, and then smugly told the agent, “You can’t get blood from a stone!”

The agent asked quietly, “What makes you think you’re a stone?”

C.K.


Reply posted by A Hamilton on December 15, 2000

Hey D.D... I'll take a general crack at these BUT keep in mind I'm not an attorney, so don't take anything I say as fact but rather use it as a guideline for asking a real atty (or two) about these issues.

What is the generally used policy on deadbeats?

It is situational. Sometimes you shrug and get p-o'ed and forget it. Sometimes you go to court. Usually you won't want to go STRAIGHT to court but try the 'more flies with honey' approach and slowly ratchet up the action. It depends on the amount involved but a lot of times all you do is mark that person off your list and let others know about them.

And you do have to consider the circumstances leading to the non-payment. Not that there is ever a reason for a breach of contract, but there are mitigating circumstances sometimes.

You have to consider what bridges you are burning if you go after them. It might not matter since they stiffed you but you have to consider all their ties also.

Do you wait for em' to pay? Take them to court?

See above....

Give them bad press?

There's two sides to every story. Gotta be careful with the bad press. There's nothing wrong with telling other sound companies/bands that so and so stiffed you tho (IMHO). BUT whoever you tell, tell the truth and the whole story. Don't leave out any parts about you being late, or forgetting the monitors or something. That bad press thing can cut both ways. And there are a couple laws about libel/slander that can apply if you get a little over-zealous and/or don't tell the WHOLE truth.

How is this sort of thing written into a contract?

Ideally there would be a deposit due by a certain date. Then there would be a penalty clause for cancellation at select points in time. That way it is spelled out in the contract that it can't be cancelled one week before showtime or whatever. Most contracts are air-tight about you (sound provider) being hired for such and such show on X date for $X. And even stipulating balance is due upon arrival or before first act takes the stage. BUT that leaves things open to interpretation as far as canceling BEFORE show-day.