In response to my earlier post, many of you expressed the need for me, as a band engineer, to "advance the show". I'm not really familiar with this expression except in the context of postings here. I take it I should contact the system engineer providing the PA to understand what equipment would be supplied, etc.

Obviously I would like to know the size of the venue, what PA equipment will be provided, how many monitor sends can be created, whether I can bring my rack or mixer, if needed. What else should I be asking?

What might the SE ask of me that would not already be covered in a tech rider, stage, plot, and input list?

Any tips would be appreciated. Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Thanks,
Kevin


Reply posted by Chris Hindle on August 09, 2001

Hey there Kevin –

The only "dumb" question is the one you didn't think was worth asking, and ended up screwing you in the end!

Advancing a show…

I keep a little loose-leaf notebook, (in street address order) of each venue I have worked. Arrange a visit a week to a month in advance if you haven't played there before. On this visit, I see the stage area, load in, electrical tie-in, and neighbours. I ask about times (load/SC/Doors/Lockdown), and who's around and when. I'll usually ask where the nearest music store is at, as well as decent (not expensive) restaurants.

If there are particulars or issues about where I imagine my stuff getting squeazed out, this is the time to rectify it. Get a "Room plot" drawn up freehand, and outline with the venue staff where FOH and Monitor world are gonna get installed. Figure snake and feeder runs, and security barriers if needed. At home, I'll redo this plot in CAD, and fax back a copy to the venue to the attention of whoever it was that I talked to (remember to write the name down before you shake hands and leave...)

I also take a couple of seconds to get someone to talk or jump around the stage area a bit, just to hear what the room sounds like empty. Make a note. Oh yeah, inquire about a safe spot to stash the truck while the show's on.

There's more, I'm sure. But you get the general idea - 99 percent of the time I'm system provider, system tech, band engineer, etc. The more you learn at the "advance", the less you have to deal with on show day.

Keep the date of last visit in the notebook. When you get a return gig, just call ‘em up, fax ‘em the room plot, and ask if there's been any changes.

Good luck, and remember, the more you ask now, the less you can look like a looser when you roll the 50K system into the 2K room (or visa-versa)!

Chris


Reply posted by Chris Kathman on August 09, 2001

“Any tips would be appreciated. Sorry if this is a dumb question.”

There is a saying: "There are no dumb questions." Those who fear to ask are doomed to a needlessly prolonged learning curve. Ask! Ask! Ask!

I deal a lot with timing when I advance a show. I ask the person when his people roll in and when they will be ready. When do they want my act to arrive? Load in? Soundcheck? Does their venue soundcheck right up until doors? Do they insist on an hour (or two) of dark stage before doors?

Curfew? Hardline/fines, or just suggested? (This gets into the tour management area, but since your band may not have one, tag, you're it. Do the info-gathering workto protect your self that wears the sound mixer hat.)

I did a show in the Midwest last week. I talked to the supplier on the phone. We agreed on a smaller desk, which could be placed halfway down a hilly seated area. I arrived there, and their monster desk was up on top of the hill.

I asked - why is that there, when we specifically agreed on the phone that I would use your B desk? They explained when they looked at the band's (outdated, faxed by agent) input list, they decided that I needed the big desk. I gave them a hard time about not checking back with me, but I was partially at fault, for not confirming that they had the right input list.

Hey, I got a good workout trotting up and down the steps all day!

C.K.


Reply posted by Jim Gould on August 08, 2001

If you do a complete rider with input list and monitor mixes, the only thing that I would ask as a supplier of sound for you would be: Is this rider current?


Reply posted by Teri Hogan on August 11, 2001

Kevin,

In reality, it's the sound provider's job to contact you, not vise versa. However, if you get too close to the show without hearing from them, then you should call. Jim's right about the stage plot and input list. Too often, the ones we get are provided by the promoter, who received them two months ago from management, who has not had an updated copy from the band in a year or two. Nine times out of ten, I get a fresh rider from the engineer and it is NOT the one I'm holding in my hand from the promoter.

Now, bands notoriously change things from night to night. You can't print up a new stage plot/input list every night and we know this. So the other question I always ask the engineer is, "Is the information I have up-to-date as of last night?" Have you added an acoustic guitar or did you decide you'd really like a bottom snare mic?

The reason for this level of detail is that any sound provider worth his salt wants to have the stage wired and boards labeled before you ever arrive at the venue. Inserting extra channels on the spot becomes messy and annoying and if it's a festival, can really wreak havoc with a festival input list.

Oh, one other thing. When creating a stage plot, please, please, please keep it clean and simple. Many of the stage plots I receive (mostly faxed) are barely decipherable because they have been created with fancy-schmancy software with cute little icons for this and that and ridiculous fonts that get garbled by faxing. The K.I.S.S. method is always best! Do remember to indicate AC receptacles required. It's obvious that amps need AC. It's not obvious that the guitar player has a pedal board and needs downstage power.

Okay, so I got off the topic. Anyway, hope this helps.

Teri


Reply posted by David Turner on August 08, 2001

You might also ask if he got the rider. After asking my standard set of questions - what's the house console, what's the monitor console, how much power, how many boxes etc. - I describe our stage set-up and ask the provider if he has any questions for me.

DT