PSW Church Talk Live Chat Transcript
Tim Vear Of Shure (www.shure.com)

March 20, 2001
(Moderated by Gary Zandstra, Integrated Media)

Moderator: Welcome to PSW Church Talk with Tim Vear. Tim, can you give us some background on yourself?

Tim Vear: I'm an applications engineer at Shure, and I come from a live sound background primarily. I still play in a rock and roll band from time to time. I've tried to combine my academic background with my music background.

Moderator: What is your academic background?

Tim: Actually aerospace engineering with a minor in EE, just your average rocket scientist. With a guitar!

Pete H: I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive way to get into EIM (in-ear monitoring systems). Something to start with, and build on to for our worship band. Suggestions?

Tim: Unless the band needs to move around a lot, hard-wired systems are the least expensive method.

Brian B.: What besides the "famous" Shure mic bag would you say is important in every live sound guy’s back of tricks, especially from Shure?

Tim: Well, the SM57 is probably the "desert island" microphone choice.

Tucci: It seems to me that speaker manufacturers sometimes break the laws of physics. Can they get away with that in God's eyes?

Tim: I think it's only the marketing department that can get away with that.

Brian B.: Can you compare the E1 to the E5 for us?

Tim: The E1 is a single-driver, full-range earpiece.The E5 is a dual-driver, two-way earpiece with a passive crossover built in to the "y" assembly. Basically the E5 has about 1/2-octave lower bass response.

Jeff: What suggestions do you have for miking a choir on stage with a praise band? Specifically how do you pick up the choir and keep the band from bleeding into it?

Tim: Choir with band? Very difficult, especially if the band is using wedge monitors. The problem is that the choir is normally "distant" miked while the band is "close" miked. If the SPL of the band at the choir microphones is as loud as the sound of the choir at the microphone you can't win. The only solution is to use directional choir microphones relatively close to the choir, aim them toward the choir and away from the band. You'll still have to get the band to turn down or move them farther away

Brian B.: Can you give us a couple books that you would suggest to read specifically targeted to the church sound guy?

Tim: Books… there are a couple of books from Howard Sams that were originally commissioned by Yamaha, written by Gary Davis. One is a general, comprehensive book at sound systems; the other is a somewhat more abbreviated one that focuses on worship applications. I highly recommend these.

Tom G.: Is it a serious shortcoming to run IEM's mono? Will I save a buck and frustrate the musicians or is this an acceptable compromise? I'm considering the PSM400's 2-channel mono feature to maintain two separate mixes on one transmitter.

Tim: That's a perfectly fine way to do it. The mono mix will generally work fine if it has everything that the player wants to hear. Remember that it's still possible for the player to listen to his own "mix" of the two mixes that you are sending.

Brian B.: What mic would you suggest for the "airy" female singer that can't get enough monitors?

Tim: If you are limited to floor monitors you can only get a certain amount of gain before feedback. A more directional mic (like a supercardioid) may help but you'll need to position the monitors accordingly due to the back lobe.

CWR: We recently purchased a PSM 400 with the E1 buds. The music director/lead singer of our Worship team complains that he sounds muffled like he is singing with his fingers stuck in his ears. Is there a fix (effects or mix techniques, etc.) to this, or is it just something one must get used to?

Tim: The effect that he's hearing is probably a combination of being isolated from the acoustic stuff that he's used to hearing plus the very "dry" sound of the mix. Some reverb may help. It may be necessary to add some ambience using a dedicated mic for that.

Jeff: Do you have any tips for sound guys just starting to mix IEMs?

Tim: For novice IEM engineers, the best practice is to try the devices yourself while the performer is working. This way you can hear what they are hearing. The isolation of these systems is the most noticeable affect.

Tom G.: I hear a lot of concern about mono IEM giving that “center of the head” listening fatigue. Can this be overcome without going to a stereo mix?

Tim: Though a stereo mix sounds more "natural" I haven't really encountered unusual "fatigue" with the normal length of exposure to these systems. Again, adding a little reverb (even in mono) may improve the experience.

yam4000vca: What was the main reason for UHF wireless to drop so much over the past few years?

Tim: I assume you mean the price drop?

yam4000vca: Yes, the price drop.

Tim: Simply, the number of units sold increases the economy of scale in manufacture. Also, design and manufacturing improvements have lowered the cost of production

Brian B.: How important due you feel it is to know a microphone’s pattern before using it?

Tim: If there is any sound source around the microphone, other than directly in front of it, you'll have to know the polar pattern in order to control pickup of those other sounds. In addition, the polar pattern of the microphone affects the pickup of the desired sound in various ways such as proximity effect and susceptibility to popping.

bob: Contrast the cardioids - general tips of when to "super", to "hyper" and to just plain ole cardioid?

Tim: There are two factors that change with the "degree" of the cardioid: the front pickup angle and the rear rejection angle. The cardioid has about 130-degrees front pickup with the null directly at the back of the mic. The supercardioid has about 115-degrees front pickup with the null about 60-degrees off the rear axis. The hypercardioid has about 105-degrees front pickup with the null about 80-degrees off the rear axis. In general, the narrower front pickup angle gives more focus and off-axis rejection but the increasing rear pickup must be allowed for when placing the mic in the path of monitors.

Steven: How do I better pick up the sound of the congregation?

Tim: Flat response, unidirectional condenser microphone placed at the front of the congregation aimed into the faces of the congregation. Treat it like a large choir but don't try to pump any of it back into the PA.

Ed: Current buzz from the FCC is getting ugly with regard to channel allotment concerning “humble” audio wireless systems. What do you hear?

Tim: No secrets here, everything is on the FCC website. The FCC has always considered wireless microphones “secondary” users. This means that we can't interfere with primary users (broadcasters) and, further, that we just have to deal with whatever interference they cause to us. The result is that we have to know where the broadcasters are and get out of the way.

Brian B.: Before a church buys a wireless system who can they call to make sure there won't be interference problems, like HDTV two -way radio traffic, etc......

Tim: When a church or any other entity buys wireless they need to tell the seller several things: What city they are in, how many other wireless systems they are already using, and how many systems they need total. The primary things to avoid are the TV stations (DTV and analog) and other wireless systems. Any manufacturer can help you with this. Most manufacturers are also willing to work with you to deal with any unanticipated interference problems after the purchase.

Brian B.: Can we call anyone at Shure to help with picking the right product?

Tim: The Applications Engineering Group is the main tech support arm of Shure. (That's me and about 10 other people.)

yam4000vca: I have had several problems with churches. A system is purchased out of town and they end up with problems with the (VHF) system. Is there anything that may be done with the labeling to help? Or should I say packaging?

Tim: Again, the major source of problems is broadcast TV stations. Unless the person buying the wireless tells the seller what the ultimate location will be, there is no way to choose the right frequencies. The package has a frequency on it, but not usually any reference to a TV station. Usually there is information in the user’s guide on this. Otherwise you have to call the manufacturer.

kc: What parallels do you find between rocket science and pro audio/mic applications?

Tim: They're both more difficult than they look, they both rely on basic physics, you'll never get wealthy doing either, but you'll have a lot of fun anyway.

miles hanbury: One well-known consultant tells me that he doesn't like the sound of small diaphragm choir microphones. He compares the sound to that of singing into a tin can. Is there a larger diaphragm model on the horizon? Or, maybe some improvements to the existing 102's, AT853's, CM30's, etc?

Tim: The sound of a microphone is somewhat related to diaphragm size, primarily because the size affects the polar pattern as a function of wavelength. If you prefer the sound of the large ones, there are many available. They are just not as popular because of their large size and (generally) higher cost. I suspect that Neumann, Schoepps and other makers of smaller diaphragms might take umbrage at the tin can reference though!

CWR: I think I might know the answer, but what should I tell someone who wants to go on stage with only one IEM bud in?

Tim: Single-ear IEM has a few potential drawbacks. The main one is since one ear is still exposed to relatively high ambient sound levels, the ear with the bud in it requires much higher levels from the bud to sound "balanced". You lose the potential for hearing conservation but it still may be sufficient for pitch cues, etc.

scotty: Can you describe some of the major upgrades the PSM700 has compared to the PSM600? Also, what new developments do you see in IEM, particularly with earpieces?

Tim: PSM700 is a frequency-synthesized unit with 32-channel tuning capability. Up to 16 frequencies may be used at once. PSM600 is only 2 channels per unit, with a maximum of 10 systems simultaneous. New IEM developments are aimed at more frequency agility, ergonomic improvements to the earpieces, possible diversity reception, more control over "ambience"… And of course, making them more affordable.

miles hanbury: Back to choir miking. What is the maximum distance for effective use of the MX102's? If there are four or more rows in the choir, won't you need two rows of mics?

Tim: A microphone manufacturer should never tell you this, but fewer microphones are better.
In general, one cardioid mic for 15-20 people will work unless they are arranged very oddly. Keep in mind that the pickup angle of a cardioid is 130 degrees. At a distance of 2 or 3 feet in front of a typical choir, that will cover at least 3 rows of people on risers. Each mic should cover a "section" of people and you should minimize the overlap of those sections.

Bob: Does Shure offer any guidelines regarding wireless antenna selection, placement, etc?

Tim: Shure (and other manufacturers) offer a wealth of information on wireless and other topics in both web-based and printed form. Antennas are a particularly tricky aspect of wireless and would urge interested users to contact us directly.

Joe: Lavalier mics - do you recommend an omnidirectional or unidirectional for typical pastor "spoken word" use?

Tim: Omni's are easier to use, but uni’s offer better gain before feedback. The downside of uni’s is more pop sensitivity, more mechanical sensitivity, and you have to aim them. If gain before feedback is an issue, go with the uni; otherwise I 'd stick with the omni.

Brian B.: Can you tell us the main difference between the beta 87a and the beta 87c?

Tim: beta87a is a supercardioid, beta87C is a cardioid, frequency response is pretty similar but the cardioid has less proximity effect.

kc: What do I do with the lectern microphone when the pastor is wearing a wireless?

Tim: Turn it off when he approaches it, otherwise both the lav and the lectern mic will pick up his voice and comb filtering will result when they are mixed together. You could also dump the lav, but that will be more of an audible change to the listener.

Scott R: What have you found with drummers and IEMs? Can they get along without shakers?

Tim: They can, especially with E5's, but if they need that “”kick in the butt,” they may like the shakers. I checked out the rig of the drummer for Bush: he had four shakers on his “throne,” driven by some huge Crest amp.

Moderator: Shakers?

Tim: It's and electro-mechanical transducer that couples directly to a solid surface.

Brian B.: Check out the standard shaker at www.aurasound.com.

Tim: Those are the guys!

Brian B.: What can you see in the very near future for use in the church market?

Tim: Sooner or later everything in the commercial market finds it way into the church market. I don't know of anything specific for the church market from us in the near future, but products such as IEM are making a huge splash in that market. I've also noticed digital mixers starting to show up there, programmable for the various events that occur, especially when the sound engineer is not always available.

Moderator: Thanks for your time Tim! (applause,applause,applause) What's the final word?

Tim: Everyone knows two jobs: They’re own and sound!

Moderator: Thanks Tim! Remember to join us next week, same time same place, for Jim Brown’s live chat concerning multi-channel sound systems. For more about Jim, check out PSW Church Talk.

Moderator: And join me, Gary Z, every Friday at Noon EDT for a free-for-all non-moderated chat. Our first session is March 30 here on PSW Church Talk.