I was wondering, is there a technical reason for this? Is this true in every case? For example for loud sources or quiet ones? Does it matter if its a live situation or studio recording? I have to admit that I had the opposite experience where by mixing from the gain stage sound was worse, which is the reason for my question. Anyone?

The technical reason that this works is that when the faders are set at unity, then the input trims can be set for the maximum signal to noise ratio, while still allowing for sufficient headroom, usually around 15-20 db.  If the faders are very low, then the input runs the risk of being overloaded, even when the channel output is at the desired level.

This is not to say that the faders always stay at unity during a live mix.  But rather it is a good starting point and allows for good control to make balance adjustments as needed during a performance.

Also, keep in mind that at the bottom of the fader, the db range is very large, making fine adjustments to the mix difficult.

I hop this answers the question.

Mark Dubosky
Natural Sound Audio Services
Bangor, Maine

I do a bunch of live sound for a couple clubs.  Have I been making a mistake by using the PFL to set gain level first?  I guess my faders mostly sit at unity afterward anyway…  After reading this article, I’m questioning my process.

Also, what about “output” on my compressor?  and main LR faders?  All of these clubs have their own systems with the amps wide open.  Some with some pretty serious gear and at one particular club, the LR really can’t go above -15 without removing paint from walls.  (I don’t really like to let it get above 110db)

I’m not agree.
Why mixing consolle producer put the faders in to the consolle if it’s not necessary to use?

How to mix music?
1/you gain for reasonable signal/noise. To make every source “talk the line levellanguage” No Problem with any system post 1965.
2/Starting at somewhere at or below unity you USE YOUR FADERS to Make the instruments you for musical reasons want to hear less of lower. And The Instruments you want to hear more of higher,
You shoot for a reasonable VU level at the program bus. In a proper system resulting in an appropriate SPL.

This does very rarely result in faders being at unity.
Music has never been a unity gain democracy kind of game.

This article is in my opinion less than brilliant, it is infact nowhere close to exact, either by musical or technical standards.

Is this the case for Digital consoles as well… where AD/DA conversion is the first that occurs?  Could it be that the difference between a good mix and a poor mix is the engineers ears and what they perceive? I see a lot of engineers these days mixing visually (more so on digital consoles) and feel that is the first mistake.  Thoughts?  To me this article scrapes the tip of an iceberg and that’s about it (not to mention live and studio engineering are truly 2 different monsters).

Justin Lizama
Highline Ballroom, NYC
Solidman Inc.

Knows enough to be dangerous:
The question to answer is: Do your mixes sound as good as the best you’ve heard?  If so, don’t sweat it.  Having the main faders at -15 though is a little disconcerting.  This could indicate that your mix may well be clipping the mix bus summing amplifier.  I would work the main fader back toward unity by reducing the channel gains appropriately.

Justin Lizama:
Yes, good process and technique is just as important.  I first mixed digital live 10 years ago and I found that even though the math may be floating point or have some insane amount of fixed point headroom, the resulting sound quality of non-unity mixing was eerily similar.
Does perception influence mixes?  Of course, but perception is a learned ability, not a fixed trait.
I would also caution not to automatically conclude that studio and live are so different.  While the environment may be dissimilar, the goal of both is identical.

James I was wondering, what is your opinion on PFL metering and how to use it?

Usually what I do is use the PFL to see where my level actually is while I adjust it. This way I can make sure that I have enough headroom. Also I monitor the input using a pair of earphones or if I have time during balance I solo it on the main PA. Thoughts?

I find it hard to agree.

Eilon:
The only time I use the meter anymore is watching my overall mix so I know what the system processor is doing without having to look at it.  I will solo and verify that I have action in the channel by looking at the meter, but I do not solo when adjusting the gain.

This article confuses me totally.  It doesn’t make sense electronically and it goes completely against the specific instructions of my desk.  I run an Allen and Heath Mixwiz 16 (and am still learning to drive it!)  The manual specifically says NOT to do what is suggested in the article.  I do monitor individual channels and I always check levels with PFL (even when live I will keep an eye on things at this end in case the musicians have kicked their backline amps or fiddled with something.)

Someone tell me that I am doing something right…

Can you kindly advise me the best gear I should invest in pleeeease!
We play 2 peice to 6 pc band, bass, lead/rhythm, 2 keyboards & drums, all using mics for vocals.
Need a good powered mixer, bass bins & midtops.
Thought of Dynacord powermate 1000 , EV bass bins & EV SX300/ 200. Also heard of a new Yamaha P’mixer that has got everything including compression on every chnl. Got to be light, as small as possible & practical to transport. NO MORE HEAVY LUGGING! Many thanx

John:
I’m old enough to know now that just because someone builds a tool doesn’t mean that they know how to use it to its full potential.  I’ve known mechanical and electrical engineers who could build large mechanized systems and not have the slightest idea how to operate them effectively or efficiently.  Those directions make sense to the technical writer who wrote them, but will get you into trouble because you’ll likely be overdriving the mix bus at unity.  You can clip the mix bus without the meter even going into the red.

mike:
Visit your local retailer, or post in the LAB Lounge and see if anyone bites.
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/5/0/

This comedy has to end.
There is no substance or truth to this article. Technically or musically.

Its what I thought as well.  The emperor has no clothes and someone is brave enought to admit it in public.  The article is fundementally flawed and it doesn’t make sense electronically.  Just because some desks/systems have a very large dynamic range, and allow you to get away with using them in such a way doesn’t make it right.

I do know something about signal to noise ratios and gain structures and I guess that I will continue to use my desk as the designer’s intended.

Perhaps the only real truth is that gain structure through a whole system needs to be monitored to ensure there is sufficient headroom at all stages from pre-amp through to PA and speakers.