As an electric guitarist performing in rock/blues bands, I have been part of the "problem" in the past, but have since worked very hard at developing proper stage volume. Obviously, from the stage, musicians can't know exactly how the volume, tone and dispersion of their instrument, or the overall mix, is within a room. Most musicians perform for years in bars without mic'd instruments, which contributes to a stage volume perceived to fit the venue. After years of gigs at this volume level, turning down to mic a guitar amp can be disorienting. Personally, I find lower stage volumes liberating, but I also understand loud stage volume is not always an issue of ego, poor musicianship or lack of willingness to adapt.

(RE: Posted by Peter on 06/04 at 12:24 PM

Is it possible to get this translated for musicians to understand?)

No translation necessary; just the effort to share the information to those in need. Inexperience may = ignorance of sound systems, but assuming they can't "get it" is arrogance, or laziness, on the part of the sound tech.

As a sound tech often has the major responsibility to control overall volume within a venue, I don't suggest cutting slack for a musician who isn't willing to adapt. If a heavy handed approach is required to get through the band's set, so be it. However, I have witnessed many, many bands performing at proper stage volumes, only to have a sound tech completely misconstrue their house mix. In a perfect world all musicians would be educated about stage volume, sound systems, how to do a proper sound check (and commit to those settings), and sound techs would understand the complexities of live music performance and music in general.

cheers,

Dave

have also gone head to head with control hungry sound techs who default to assuming musicians “don’t get it”, shrug off ANY request for more monitors, and make zero attempt to assist musicians when needed. Its no surprise that those sound techs typically produce the worse FOH mixes. Certainly, every musician should learn proper stage techniques, yet the traditional training ground is in clubs without any professional sound tech guidance. Is it any wonder .

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Stage volume wars, monitor problems and bad FOH mixes have existed as long as I have been performing and attending live music events (30+ years). Musicians and sound techs need to pay serious attention to each other, if they intend to make any significant change.

While various gear solutions (smaller amps, off stage amps, smaller drum sticks, baffles, IEM, etc.) are a huge step in the right direction, they only create new problems if not employed correctly. The root of the stage volume problem has always been the people, not the gear, making the noise. As a guitarist, bassist and singer, I have worked hard at achieving manageable stage volumes, and I resent musicians who won't do the same. After loosing a few gigs due to drummers who wouldn't play softer, I have no patience for self indulgent musicians.

I have also gone head to head with control hungry sound techs who default to assuming musicians "don't get it", shrug off ANY request for more monitors, and make zero attempt to assist musicians when needed. Its no surprise that those sound techs typically produce the worse FOH mixes. Certainly, every musician should learn proper stage techniques, yet the traditional training ground is in clubs without any professional sound tech guidance. Is it any wonder why most musicians have the same problems with stage volume and monitors?

Whenever stage volume, monitors and FOH mixes are discussed, comments usually revolve around what someone else is doing wrong. Musicians and sound techs won't resolve this without working together.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I'm quite tired of this problem.

In Ear Monitors can be an excellent way to reduce stage levels but it is important to remember that when used by inexperienced or untrained musicians/sound techs they can be very dangerous and cause significant hearing damage. The is especially true in venus that use volunteer teams. Provide training, reinforce the importance of good sound practices to avoid feedback, always mute when making connections, add limiters between mixer and transmitter and NEVER defeat limiter on IEM.

With full respect to the authors i found this article too simplistic. turn the drums down, get smaller amps and then turn the monitors down no-matter-what.

i mix, i don't play onstage, so this is not a rant by a muso to get their own way, and while i totally and completely support the need for both sides of the mic to be considerate of the bigger picture rather than 'their' tone or volume, to be honest i find most of the time the monitors volume has a lot more to do with poor balance and tone.

Sound mixers need to go and stand with the muso to really hear what they are hearing and go from there. listen first, ask yourself "if i played bass (or whatever) what would i need to hear and play my best?" Put yourself in their shoes.

Time after time i find i can provide a pretty simple mix (as discussed in the article) at a much lower volume than others by empathising musically with the player or vocalist. Poor tone, muffled or dull or thin, makes it exceptionally hard to hear yourself and is often why people ask for more volume, to overcome an eq issue.

Get the balance and tone right, spend time with the musos onstage, and you'll be amazed at how much you can bring down the monitors volume so as to give FOH separation.

You cant just set levels and be hard nosed about it, that only exacerbates the 'us and them' thing that so many churches in particular experience.

Gtr amp techniques as discussed are great, but i too ask the question "omni condenser?" The only time i use a condenser is when paired with a cardioid dynamic and is usually more of a studio than live technique unless its a large venue you're in.

So while i agree with the intention of the article, and appreciate you are trying to fit information into a certain page space allowance, please dont send out church engineers everywhere telling their worship teams and pastors that "this is the level and thats it". We mixers need to be a lot harder on ourselves in providing a great tone and balance for the musos if they are in turn to trust us enough to turn down and let us mix.